Additional Smoke Alarm

[claret73]

Adding to a thread I started a while ago. A customer has asked me to install an additional alarm at the request of her building control as she is renting out her house. The extra alarm is to be on the 1st floor. She already has an interlinked system from ground floor, connecting to landing, which then connects to the 2nd floor.

The best solution and least disruption (as she has wooden flooring above which would be damaged if removed) would be to install a radio link alarm. The Building Inspector has said all 4 alarms would need to be Radio Link if I did this. I was under the impression that I could switch out the landing for a radio link & install a 2nd radio link (the additional) on this floor, leaving the hallway & 2nd floor hardwired thus connecting them together?

I'm trying to get hold of Aico, so will see what they say, but thought I'd ask to see if anybody has done similar.

 

[davelerave]

don't know why he would say that

 

[claret73]

No me neither?

This is how I saw it, but needed to clarify before pricing it to customer:
From the board fed to Hallway Smoke. Interlinked off this to Landing & Interlinked off this to 2nd floor. The additional alarm needs to go on landing level about 3 metres away in a corridor, so was thinking I could keep the feed to this from Hallway & replace with a Radio Base but keep the feed to 2nd floor. Fit a Radio alarm for the additional, therefore syncing these 2 together. (Feed for additional off the nearest lighting point). Dunno if I'm missing the point, surely these would all sync if alarms went off?

1 Extra point, is this notifiable even as a Minor works? Worst thing I'd be doing is breaking into a lighting circuit...

I can't understand why this was not done or picked up when house was re-wired 2 years ago just before 17th ed.

 

[davelerave]

you can mix wired+wireless interconnect

unless he knows something i don't

 

[sjm]

If you can't mix wired and wireless howcome Aico say in their handbook that wireless is the ideal way to extend existing systems? I've done it and it works perfectly.

 

[accordfire]

Fairly sure the radio link bases can be mixed with non radio bases, just that the heads all have to be series 160 to get functionality with wire free hush/test switches.

The radio link base should be end of line - so your 3&E for interlinking all the non wireless bases, and then from the last wired, into the wireless base in 3&E. The wireless base will still switch the interconnect terminal and trigger the wired bases.

 

[Cena123]

Most air-sampling smoke detection systems are capable of a higher sensitivity than spot type smoke detectors and provide multiple levels of alarm threshold, such as Alert, Action, Fire 1 and Fire 2. Thresholds may be set at levels across a wide range of smoke levels. This provides earlier notification of a developing fire than spot type smoke detection, allowing manual intervention or activation of automatic suppression systems before a fire has developed beyond the smoldering stage, thereby increasing the time available for evacuation and minimizing fire damage.

 

[claret73]

Fairly sure the radio link bases can be mixed with non radio bases, just that the heads all have to be series 160 to get functionality with wire free hush/test switches.

The radio link base should be end of line - so your 3&E for interlinking all the non wireless bases, and then from the last wired, into the wireless base in 3&E. The wireless base will still switch the interconnect terminal and trigger the wired bases.

Bill
Thanks for your response. The end of line as it is interkinked is the 2nd floor. The additional needs to go on the floor below. My thoughts for putting in RadioLinks was to avoid having to Get up the floor above as it's an expensive looking wooden floor that looks like it was never designed to come back up!!!

Can I not replace the middle alarm (Landing) with a Radio base & then add the new Radio Base where it needs to go on this same floor level? Then I'd have wired to Hall, Interconnected 3&E to landing Radio Base, Interconnected 3&E to 2nd Floor with a Radio Base (Additional on Landing Corridor) as the newly installed syncing with Landing.

Still waiting on Aico...Nothing's ever easy...
Cheers
Andy

 

[accordfire]

Bill
Thanks for your response. The end of line as it is interkinked is the 2nd floor. The additional needs to go on the floor below. My thoughts for putting in RadioLinks was to avoid having to Get up the floor above as it's an expensive looking wooden floor that looks like it was never designed to come back up!!!

Can I not replace the middle alarm (Landing) with a Radio base & then add the new Radio Base where it needs to go on this same floor level? Then I'd have wired to Hall, Interconnected 3&E to landing Radio Base, Interconnected 3&E to 2nd Floor with a Radio Base (Additional on Landing Corridor) as the newly installed syncing with Landing.

Still waiting on Aico...Nothing's ever easy...
Cheers
Andy

Possibly, you can.

However, potential pitfalls to doing things this way are if the radio base develops a fault of any sort, it may take out a whole floor of detection, if the interlink relay on the radio base fails. While potentially this *could* happen on any base, I wouldn't say it was good practice to stick it "in the middle"

By changing the last one to a radio base, and then adding the others to communicate with it, you keep the integrity of the original interlink too, and ensure you have redundancy on each floor too, one way and another.

You shouldn't have to get the floor up, any more than you would have - radio link bases still need a local mains supply, on twin and earth.

Cheers.

 

[accordfire]

Most air-sampling smoke detection systems are capable of a higher sensitivity than spot type smoke detectors and provide multiple levels of alarm threshold, such as Alert, Action, Fire 1 and Fire 2. Thresholds may be set at levels across a wide range of smoke levels. This provides earlier notification of a developing fire than spot type smoke detection, allowing manual intervention or activation of automatic suppression systems before a fire has developed beyond the smoldering stage, thereby increasing the time available for evacuation and minimizing fire damage.

And the point of this junk is??????

To be honest pal, not that HSSD has anything to do with this thread, but if you buy an air sampling detector that *isn't* capable of higher sensitivity than a point detector, you want your money back.

Not sure at all why you're discussing this in a thread that has nothing at all to do with the differences between air sampling, and point detection - yeah, that's right we call it POINT detection in the UK and not SPOT detection, like our American cousins.

Anyway, completely sure the guy wouldn't want to be installing an air sampling network in a domestic environment, where he's keen not to rip up floors, only has interlinked smoke detection, and not a full FD&A, and probably has no interest at all in the intricacies, or otherwise of a Vesda system.

So, your spot? Sorry, point??