Advice for a bill/dispute

[Octopus]

Offer him 9 hours time (including travelling) - plus the parts ......... still a bit high but 3 seperate visits do add time to a job ...........

Neither of you are going to win out of this situation.

And if this bill is agreed at this level, just warn your friends about getting work done without an estimate first!

Compromise on both sides is necessary to get this sorted - if either of you go "legal" the costs will escalate out of hand VERY quickly.


(like the farce in the Brexit conversations)

 

[In_need_of_advice]

Here is a picture of the r.c.d.

There has been zero papers of certification handed out. Were in Scotland and I don't know the rules.

Here's the paragraph about the dad denying he was an apprentice. I notice that he says he was fully tried by him and doesn't include any lines like time served of has qualifications.

He was a nice young guy which his dad appears to want to remind me. He's also likes to remind me how established he is and how's he's never encountered bad debt before. His letter does have a lot of irrelevant facts that sidestep the issues.

 

[In_need_of_advice]

Can't see any costing for required testing, certification and notifying Building control, or is it different where you live?, Has he issued any certification? If he is disputing your claim that the lad was/is an Apprentice, and the Father is saying he is an Electrician, ask him if you coild see copies of the Lads qualifications, is the Father / Son Electrician a member of any of the Competent Persons Schemes?

Should I be issued a certificate for this work? I'm in Scotland if that makes a difference.

The company are members of SELECT. I have emailed them, but no response as yet.

I posted picture above about the dad's explanation of the son. He does skip past the words time served and doesn't highlight any qualifications.

 

[telectrix]

you should definitely get a certificate. as for the guy's son, it may be that he's not got qualifications, but he may be competent through practical experience and taught by his dad. still, i think the price is way high for the work you describe.

 

[In_need_of_advice]

you should definitely get a certificate. as for the guy's son, it may be that he's not got qualifications, but he may be competent through practical experience and taught by his dad. still, i think the price is way high for the work you describe.

Can he issue a certificate of conformance without qualification?

 

[telectrix]

could be the father issuing the cert. either way, the key word is competence. this can be demonstrated by qualifications and/or experience. in a court of law, relevant qualifications go a long way to proving competence, but without practical experience, who can tell if a guy is competent or not.

 

[In_need_of_advice]

could be the father issuing the cert. either way, the key word is competence. this can be demonstrated by qualifications and/or experience. in a court of law, relevant qualifications go a long way to proving competence, but without practical experience, who can tell if a guy is competent or not.

The father was only in my house for less than 2 hours on the first day. He hasn't been back to check the work carried out since.

Can the son be deemed competent when he didn't understand how to wire the LED lights on the drawer and loses hours to hang a mirror requiring 3 screws?

Does claiming 18 hours to do the work highlighted also bring into question being competent?

I can't understand how these drawers have caused such an issue. Here is a link to the lights.

Scheme 800 lighting kit | Roper Rhodes - http://www.roperrhodes.co.uk/product/scheme-800mm-lighting-kit/#.WeclnffTXqB

What confusion can there be to the placement of the LED strips, the position of the touch sensor, or how to wire it?

 

[Pete999]

The father was only in my house for less than 2 hours on the first day. He hasn't been back to check the work carried out since.

Can the son be deemed competent when he didn't understand how to wire the LED lights on the drawer and loses hours to hang a mirror requiring 3 screws?

Does claiming 18 hours to do the work highlighted also bring into question being competent?

I can't understand how these drawers have caused such an issue. Here is a link to the lights.

Scheme 800 lighting kit | Roper Rhodes - http://www.roperrhodes.co.uk/product/scheme-800mm-lighting-kit/#.WeclnffTXqB

What confusion can there be to the placement of the LED strips, the position of the touch sensor, or how to wire it?

Jobs not finished till the certs been issued. Tell the Father you require a certificate before ANY payment will be considered. If you doubt the Sons competence, was he supervised during the installation, sounds to me that the Father has taken this job on hoping to make a killing using his Son as a form of cheap labour, as you mentioned earlier he openly admitted he was struggling with the work. To issue a certificate will require him to carry out certain tests, both dean and when the work is made live.

 

[J.C.E]

Here is his breakdown. The other pages have addresses and personal details. I'll need to edit that stuff out.

His son was the only one in the loft between our previous visits. We don't smoke and the smell was obvious to us.

I did take it up with him that a few other electricians I spoke to said about £350 would be cost of the job.

Where else would you put a sensor on a drawer you have to touch to turn on? I didn't read the instructions, but I can't begin to understand the confusion.

View attachment 38878

View attachment 38879

To be honest i rather agree with him- especially his last paragraph
why spend all your time (and the electrician waiting to be paid) now that he has done the job and you don't like the price- why not spend that time before you get him commited!

 

[Pete999]

To be honest i rather agree with him- especially his last paragraph
why spend all your time (and the electrician waiting to be paid) now that he has done the job and you don't like the price- why not spend that time before you get him commited!

What exactly do you mean J.C.E.

 

[telectrix]

could be the father issuing the cert.

committed. i should be so.

 

[In_need_of_advice]

To be honest i rather agree with him- especially his last paragraph
why spend all your time (and the electrician waiting to be paid) now that he has done the job and you don't like the price- why not spend that time before you get him commited!

I have no issues with his labour rate of £30+ VAT per hour. I'm not disputing that at all.

I don't like the price as he's claiming for more hours than worked. He is also claiming full tradesman wages and sent someone who couldn't do the work in a satisfactory time and openly admitted that to us.

I appreciate that he shouldn't have been booked prior to getting a quote. I still believe I have a right to expect the job to be carried out at a reasonable cost.

So far not a single electrician has agreed that his charges are in anyway fair. They all highlight it's not even close to fair.

I haven't missed out any of the work to downplay the work carried out.

 

[Electric Magic]

EDITED to include VAT on labour

OP, I'd suggest only going to court as a last resort as you didn't agree terms in advance and you may have a difficult time disputing the labour cost unless you can prove they were not at the property for the time they claim to have been at the property. Also, from the list of jobs they've provided against each time period it does seem as if a bit more work was done than you are willing to admit (probably because you weren't expecting such a high bill). You could try (as has been suggested above) offering to pay for fewer hours but perhaps go a bit higher (than suggested above) so that the dispute doesn't continue (perhaps 14 hours). I'd also address the markup on materials (which is far from reasonable). Electricians often charge a mark-up (usually in the region of 10% to 20%), but you've been charged far more than the norm. For example:

1. the E8 downlights you've been supplied with, even at Screwfix without a trade account, are less than £18 including VAT. At £24 including VAT that's a 33% mark-up, which seems a bit steep, and you can get those downlights from other suppliers for about £12.50 including VAT (so ask where they got them).
2. the RCD (which looks to be a Knightsbridge RCD6000) is less than £20 including VAT and delivery from all but one online sellers on Google, so the mark-up is 65% plus.
3. 25 meters of 1mm twin and earth is £9.49 from Screwfix if bought as 25 meters (and significantly less - 1/4 of £27 - if part of a 100m roll). So £21.46 is a 126% mark-up on 25 meters sold by itself (and the wholesalers I use are usually cheaper than Screwfix).

I'd suggest offering in the region of £664 (14 hours labour plus £160 materials) on condition of receiving a building control notification (proving they've registered the job) and the certificate for the work.

 

[telectrix]

I'd suggest offering in the region of £580 (14 hours labour plus £160 materials) on condition of receiving a building control notification (proving they've registered the job) and the certificate .

sounds reasonable,

 

[In_need_of_advice]

I'd suggest offering in the region of £580 (14 hours labour plus £160 materials) on condition of receiving a building control notification (proving they've registered the job) and the certificate .

sounds reasonable,

Thanks again guys. Much appreciated everyone.

What do you both mean by proving they've registered the job?

14 hours labour at £36 and £160 materials? £664?

 

[Pete999]

Thanks again guys. Much appreciated everyone.

What do you both mean by proving they've registered the job?

14 hours labour at £36 and £160 materials? £664?

The work is notifiable, if Matey is not a member of a CP Scheme the LBC will certify the work at a cost of course, and I think will want to see test results from the installer, I think that is correct, not sure as I didn't d much Domestic work. There will be others who can say if this is correct, I'm sure.

 

[telectrix]

OP is in Scotland. building control is different there. they speak a version of Gaelic.( that's a language, pete, as opposed to garlic what you put on a joint of meat ).

 

[Pete999]

OP is in Scotland. building control is different there. they speak a version of Gaelic.( that's a language, pete, as opposed to garlic what you put on a joint of meat ).

Same sort of tongue as Scouse is it Tel

 

[Electric Magic]

Thanks again guys. Much appreciated everyone.

What do you both mean by proving they've registered the job?

14 hours labour at £36 and £160 materials? £664?

EDITED - sorry missed that you are in Scotland OP, different rules up there

I've amended my previous comment to reflect I'd missed that the £30 per hour did not include the VAT.

 

[In_need_of_advice]

It'd be good to hear from a Scottish member (who won't sound anything like a Scouser) about the Scottish requirements for a safety certificate.