Advice needed for non-paying customer

[keniff]

I'd go with the post "go there with some side cutters" cut everything flush to the wall lol

 

[ruston]

All good advice regarding the law route. Further to the post about informing local tradesmen I would also have a quiet word with the managers of the local building suppliers , it may be that he has opened accounts with them; I'm sure they would thank you for the warning.
Before I did anything I would tell him of any action you are going to take regarding the advice you have been given, as has been said he is a chancer and a fright maybe all he needs.
Tell him the effect that credit checks will have on his future credit rating never mind ccj's. All the best.

 

[supasparxs]

ok,
I have read the replies and there are a few questions for you

Is this retire builder a Ltd company of a private individual?

Have you submitted a written quotation?
Do you have a set of terms and conditions? if not here is one from this forum a few weeks ago and I'm now adopting these.
(http://www.electriciansforums.net/b...an-business-requires-advice-2.html#post397464)
Any documentation in regards variations or extras?
Did you submit the invoices in writing?
If you did submit the invoice did it state when the invoice was due?
What if any contract do you have in writing?
What if any contract was agreed verbally?

As it has already been stated that you should submit an invoice stating that if payment is not received within 7 days from date of the invoice the legal action will proceed?

After this has elapsed there are 2 choices. You can either go down the small claims court,

the URL is

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

The forms are straight forward, when it goes to court go prepared and have all your documentation with you.

Over the last few year myself and my other half have been there 4 times, both us claiming against others and others claiming against us
1) Me first time. non-payment of invoice when subcontracting. I won I didn't fill the form in claiming interest on overdue monies so I got my invoice amount and expences
2) Other half. She said some garments (she's in the rag trade) were sub standard. the other party stalled and at the 11th hour attempted to propon the hearing. The magistrate over ruled him and he was absent. we won. and got expenses and costs. we wrote to him stating that he had 7 days to collect his stock, pro-former invoice for us to return his stock (invoice for something that will be done in the future). He had a courier company collect them.
3) A builder took us to court for non-payment of invoices. the work in the garden was not fit for purpose. we (both parties went to court) he wanted a plumber that is now a surveyor to be an expert witness. we wanted someone who has experience of block paving and hard landscaping (now retired from actual work due to back injury). There is no qualification in hard landscaping, however the expert witness we were proposing was helping to write the NVQ in it.
The long and the short of it is, the report went badly for the builder and he started another company. when we won there were no assets in the company. he had moved his office to his home. which has a 600mm high fence around it with and entryphone. there is CCTV in operation.
we commuted the CCJ to a writ of via farrsas (don't quote me basically as the money was over £600 the bailiffs have more powers).
As the registered office is a domestic house then there is no way they can force entry to recover goods to the value.
Basically we won, but we won alot of work with no reward
4) Me subbing for another company, I started the small claims court against them. they "Phoenixed" the company. basically moved all assets out of the company left all the debt. and I was down £3500

someone stated getting building control involved about the 1st fix was carried out but due to non-payment the second fix has not progressed and as a result any EIC is incomplete without your signature.
That's a good Idea


The small claims court is straight forward, you don't need to get someone to represent you, it'll be the magistrate, you and the other party sitting around a table.

When you do fill the form in. Make sure you fill in the bit about interest from the day the invoice became overdue

Good luck

Richard

 

[richy3333]

Good post supasparxs. Sorry to hear you've had so much contact with the courts!

 

[supasparxs]

It's all experience,
good and bad.

but basically I don't do this job for fun.
I work hard, and would like to be rewarded for my efforts

If someone says they are having a cash flow problem, I can be flexible.
we all have those issues from time to time.
but when people take the P!55.....

Richard

 

[drew35]

Get back in there and remove everything you supplied. Tell him the money he has paid so far was for your labour and you still own the parts as he has failed to pay, as they still belong to you you're entitled to remove them. Then like everyone else has said, cut the cables flush, walk away lesson learned but don't leave him with anything that he's gained out of you. And most important, if he's older / smaller than you, punch him!!!

 

[supasparxs]

Get back in there and remove everything you supplied. Tell him the money he has paid so far was for your labour and you still own the parts as he has failed to pay, as they still belong to you you're entitled to remove them. Then like everyone else has said, cut the cables flush, walk away lesson learned but don't leave him with anything that he's gained out of you. And most important, if he's older / smaller than you, punch him!!!

This would be illegal
you maybe able to remove your property from somewhere, but you cant cause ant damage.
so If the walls are plastered you can remove the cables without damaging the plaster?

I think there is something somewhere that you can't just cut the cables (tempting as it is)
I'm not sure what but you would be damaging there property (as it is fitted to their building)

Richard

 

[sparky3366]

If they haven't paid for it, its your property. I've done it before and would do it again against some of the chancers out there...

 

[Spoon]

Get back in there and remove everything you supplied. Tell him the money he has paid so far was for your labour and you still own the parts as he has failed to pay, as they still belong to you you're entitled to remove them.

I like this idea, but I dont think I would do any damage to any work you have done upto now. If you do take him to court & you get all the money he owes you, you might have to finish the job off, and that would be a bit hard if you have cut all the cables.

 

[trev]

and why not put an ad in the local paper to advertise he doesn't pay his contractors?

That could be legally classed as harrassment and/or slander or libel (depending on which of those means you put it in writing)

 

[sparky3366]

That could be legally classed as harrassment and/or slander or libel (depending on which of those means you put it in writing)

thats one of the reasons you dont see peoples names in shop windows anymore...

 

[trev]

In a similar situation I once went to see someone who I thought was trying to stiff me with a couple of lads I played rugby with they didn't have to say anything they just looked menacing. I got paid but the legallities of this approach are a little dubious

 

[Cyberprog]

You're not entitled to go in with a pair of side cutters, as in a situation such as this the stuff you have installed has become part of the property. I'd also avoid violence, as it's too easy to get nicked for it.
Just pay some heavies to jump him one night 6 months down the line, much more satisfying
If I were you, I'd try and see if you can get enough evidence to suggest that this was a B2B transaction, not a B2C, with him being a sole trader. Your use of trade rates here may well help in that situation. This allows you to use the Late Payment Legislation, and put late fees and interest onto the debt.

 

[pete1]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I would like to try to behave as reasonably as possible so I have today written to the customer with an explanation of the additional costs for the extra work that he had asked for and a revised estimate to complete the job. I have also enclosed my invoice for the work so far and have requested payment within 14 days. I have stated that I would be happy to go back and complete the job but will require the full balance in advance. If I don't hear anything back then I'm afraid I will have to think about a final demand and then possible court action. All this business has made me think hard about the best way to ensure payment on completion of work in the future and as suggested by Dave the 40% 1st, 40% 2nd and 20% EIC looks like a good way forward. The trouble is consumers are often advised by the media not to part with money until the works completed, but what about the trades who are often left unpaid?

 

[trev]

On a more serious note than my last post I've got a mate who is an accountant and he tells me that if the bill is more than £750 (which I'd bet it is) there are ways you can have him declared bankrupt. It would really pee on his fireworks if you could do that but me mate says you'll probably need a solicitorto guide you through the process and it'll cost you a few quid.

Best of luck to you mate

 

[La Poste]

Please keep us informed of future developments.

I am just getting my head around the small claims court procedure myself at the moment.

Ok it's for a clamping company that charged me £450 to release my car but it's still relevant.

This sort of thing, builders ripping Sparkies off, is happening too much these days.

Apologies if I have offended any honest builders.

 

[Cyberprog]

Please keep us informed of future developments.

I am just getting my head around the small claims court procedure myself at the moment.

Ok it's for a clamping company that charged me £450 to release my car but it's still relevant.

This sort of thing, builders ripping Sparkies off, is happening too much these days.

Apologies if I have offended any honest builders.

Caution - Do not only Sue the Clamping Company - Sue the Land Owner or Agent who employed them at the same time, on the same action. That way, when they lose (which they inevitably will) you can get the money from a company that actually has assets, and will therefore pay, instead of ignore you and eventually pheonix. Plus you can then take a charge on the land too if all else fails.

And in future, don't be so bloody stupid and pay. Cut the bloody thing off. What clamp? is the only thing you need say if someone comes round, just make sure you dispose of the evidence, scrap metal is at an all time high.

 

[Octopus]

Please keep us informed of future developments.

I am just getting my head around the small claims court procedure myself at the moment.

Ok it's for a clamping company that charged me £450 to release my car but it's still relevant.

This sort of thing, builders ripping Sparkies off, is happening too much these days.

Apologies if I have offended any honest builders.

£450.00 to release a clamp - cripes where were you? Chelsea or Westminster??

 

[La Poste]

£450.00 to release a clamp - cripes where were you? Chelsea or Westminster??

Can you believe it Southall of all places, I only went for a quick curry.

There is an Iceland store and it has a car park that is not lit at all.
The clampers wait in the shadows and clamp you even when you are sitting in your car, it's a complete racket.

I joined a motoring forum and found out this car park is notorious.
I learned on the forum the procedure for getting my money back but like all things it's finding the bloody time to do it.

 

[alarm man]

Can you believe it Southall of all places, I only went for a quick curry.

There is an Iceland store and it has a car park that is not lit at all.
The clampers wait in the shadows and clamp you even when you are sitting in your car, it's a complete racket.

I joined a motoring forum and found out this car park is notorious.
I learned on the forum the procedure for getting my money back but like all things it's finding the bloody time to do it.

ive never been clamped before(ive said it now) but if i did the basser things getting the barrel drilled out and left with a £10 note to cover the cost of the replacement,you think traffic wardens are bad,id rather share a drink with a junkie than a clamper..scum of the earth..