Advice regarding new installation needed

[PeacefulWarrior]

Hello all. I will try to keep this short and hopefully sweet:
I finished a house rewire recently. I am supposed to issue an NICEIC certificate. The owner of the house owes me some money for part of the work(£2000). He initially agreed to pay the money owed, but he has now turned around and says he hasn't got the money(or will) to pay any more. He is saying that I can sue him if I want, as he has a friend who is a top lawyer and that he will go and get the certificate from another electrician. When I mentioned Building Control and following proper procedure, he said he doesn't give a monkey's about them. The house was recently bought, in order to be renovated and sold on for a profit. He already has offers coming in and he needs the electrical certification in order to sell the house asap. Can he just delete me out of the equation and get an EICR of someone else?

Has anyone been a similar predicament? What would be the best thing to do, if you were me?

Thanks in advance for any helpful advice.

 

[Darkwood]

Legally the job is incomplete until the certificate has been issued, if you want to play that game he has you over a barrel, you cannot use the certificate as a tool to ensure payment.
I would issue the cert' and put your new invoice in from the date you passed it over, this invoice will be to the terms you agreed prior to the job, also to add anyone selling an house does not have to provide certificates, it is up to the buyer to have the electrics checked, there is often pressure put on the seller to provide them by the estate agent but this has no legal requirement behind it.

I would suggest if no terms were agreed then a standard 28days would be applied to the invoice, failure of payment within these terms then you submit a statement that the payment is overdue and should be paid immediately, it is normal to wait 2-4 weeks to allow for payment after the statement then you forward a solicitors letter or a light threat that the debt will be passed onto a debt collecting agency.

TBH he seems like a reet *^*% and I would pass him the cert' then with a repeat invoice and explain that failure to pay will mean you will pass the debt on to a debt collecting agency.

Depending on how he responds I would then do all contact via recorded email or txt so you have evidence to back yourself up...

Personally off the record a few heavies leaning on someone equally does the trick as he seem clear he doesn't intend paying and is making threats like you suggest... probably needs a quiet word in a language he can understand (disclaimer ... this is not advice but humour)

 

[TJ Anderson]

Did you supply the materials?

 

[pirate]

Many years ago it was known as a ROMALPA clause. Basically, your contract should state that all goods remain your property until paid for in full. Thus, while you cannot remove fixed wiring, or other items so annexed to the property that they have become part of it, you can remove moveable items...
anything that you can remove to stop the installation being used is fine, imho. A combination lock on the CU until paid? Anything you clever guys can use to show that the installation is fine when finished, but a "car key" to dangle until you are paid in full.
If you install an alarm system, withhold the code until you get your money. Anything that bu**ers them up is fine!

 

[Taylortwocities]

You’re an NICEIC member?
Do you have a contract for the work?

Time for the NICEIC legal people to earn the money you pay for your CPS money!

 

[Octopus]

He initially agreed to pay the money owed, but he has now turned around and says he hasn't got the money(or will) to pay any more.

He is saying that I can sue him if I want, as he has a friend who is a top lawyer and that he will go and get the certificate from another electrician.

Did you agree the full amount before you started?

And if so, is it in writing?

Is the amount owing on a single invoice?

Suing him could be expensive and fun BUT if you agreed a price with him before you started then things are fairly clear cut...

If the amount owing is a single invoice its easier to bring to a conclusion ..............

So if its a single invoice, how many days over due is it? Have you politely reminded him, in writing that it needs to be paid? If the answers to this are more than 30 days and you have reminded him a few times then ............. you have to send him a final demand .........

then the next step IS the money claim online ........ you have to submit all the facts and he has his opportunity to "respond" ....

If the amount due is "his" to pay, and he fails to pay then he'll have a CCJ against him

The final demand must include the following:

"I attach my original invoice to this letter and wish to inform you, that if the invoice is not settled in full by xx --- 2018, I intend to refer this matter to the Small Claims Court without further reference to you."


If you get heavy, without allowing due time for them to pay, the judge will throw it out. The cost of the court action IS added to their bill and when they lose they will get a CCJ against them.



Scumbags like him need to be taught a lesson.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Puts hell in you this sort of thing. Prob wont get paid.

Get access saying you need to do a test for his cert blah blah. Megger the lot at 1kV ensuring all vulnerable equipment connected and switched on lol. Then cut all circuits at db and push up into ceiling. Disconnect tails at white box cut and push into cavity do the same at db end. No money but you'd feel better lol

 

[pirate]

Become a plumber! install a secret stopcock!
or isolator...

 

[Strima]

Puts hell in you this sort of thing. Prob wont get paid.

Get access saying you need to do a test for his cert blah blah. Megger the lot at 1kV ensuring all vulnerable equipment connected and switched on lol. Then cut all circuits at db and push up into ceiling. Disconnect tails at white box cut and push into cavity do the same at db end. No money but you'd feel better lol

What cracking way of getting done for criminal damage.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Thanks for the various and interesting suggestions. I thought about the revenge thing, but nobody wins going down that route. By keeping the post short, I couldn't explain the situation in more detail: The owner of the house is the investor who put the money down for buying the house upfront. He then partnered with a guy who has the gift of the gab, a firm, but no actual builders. Who, in turn, got a painter in, who in turn got a builder in, who got me in and the few other trades involved. There is some email evidence regarding my involvement, as well as the testimony of the builder and the painter, but not a detailed contract as such. I was initially dealing with the builder, then had to ask the painter for money, then went above him to the middleman. He is the one who was issuing the ultimatums, 'take our offer or leave it'. I have finally contacted the house owner, who is also the beneficiary and the one I will be issuing the certificate to. I think he didn't know what the story was until now, only hearing what the middlemen were telling him. I will only be dealing with him from now on, he seemed an intelligent and well-educated man.
I am NICEIC(this was the property I used for my assessment). They paid for the materials, I came in to do the work, off of some sketchy, homemade computer drawings(so no proper design criteria, I had to de the design as I went along, with changes to the installation happening on a weekly basis). I will be using the certificate as the bargaining chip, as he seems very keen on selling the property asap and can't do it without it. He also can't get anyone else to sign the install off, without informing Building Control, who will be asking questions like: 'if this is a new install, why no EIC, no notifications?', etc. They don't want to be drawing attention to themselves, so paying me and getting the works signed off is the only route they have. I will give him a few more days, then ask NICEIC and Buiding Control for their advice regarding this, so that I know what my position and options are, exactly.

 

[Octopus]

Hum ............. irrespective of who you think you are dealing with ALL tradespeople need to know before they start, who is paying them and get a price agreed

You could be in trouble getting the money IMHO

No certificates are NOT a show stopper with a house sale ....

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

I never would have let it get to £2000.I want stage payments if the job is larger than £800.If they didn't pay the first payment or delayed it then your not out of pocket by too much.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Thanks for the various and interesting suggestions. I thought about the revenge thing, but nobody wins going down that route. By keeping the post short, I couldn't explain the situation in more detail: The owner of the house is the investor who put the money down for buying the house upfront. He then partnered with a guy who has the gift of the gab, a firm, but no actual builders. Who, in turn, got a painter in, who in turn got a builder in, who got me in and the few other trades involved. There is some email evidence regarding my involvement, as well as the testimony of the builder and the painter, but not a detailed contract as such. I was initially dealing with the builder, then had to ask the painter for money, then went above him to the middleman. He is the one who was issuing the ultimatums, 'take our offer or leave it'. I have finally contacted the house owner, who is also the beneficiary and the one I will be issuing the certificate to. I think he didn't know what the story was until now, only hearing what the middlemen were telling him. I will only be dealing with him from now on, he seemed an intelligent and well-educated man.
I am NICEIC(this was the property I used for my assessment). They paid for the materials, I came in to do the work, off of some sketchy, homemade computer drawings(so no proper design criteria, I had to de the design as I went along, with changes to the installation happening on a weekly basis). I will be using the certificate as the bargaining chip, as he seems very keen on selling the property asap and can't do it without it. He also can't get anyone else to sign the install off, without informing Building Control, who will be asking questions like: 'if this is a new install, why no EIC, no notifications?', etc. They don't want to be drawing attention to themselves, so paying me and getting the works signed off is the only route they have. I will give him a few more days, then ask NICEIC and Buiding Control for their advice regarding this, so that I know what my position and options are, exactly.

I have heard of that as a lever too. Speak to build control and give them the house details. Inform them you have done a full rewire, not yet 100% finished, but you will be issuing EIC and registering job through scheme provider. They are not to accept an EICR.
Stuff the rules too with regard you having to give a cert. You have tested installation, and have the cert but you don't need to give it out. Put commisioning and certification on a seperate invoice after you have been paid for the 2nd fix.

 

[FatAlan]

Go back to do the testing if you can and remove £2k worth of if you can. Civil dispute. Police won’t be interested so long as you’re on site with permission. Even taking back some of what you’ve installed won’t be theft as you are not being dishonest and believe you have a legal right to it.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Thanks TJ, that sounds like solid advice. I will do as you suggest.

 

[Dillb]

Theres a alot I skim read there, but do you have any proof of acknowledgement that they owe you the money in writing e.g text email letter?

 

[Sparky Pat]

Speak to a solicitor and see if you can put a charge on the property.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Yes Dill, I have some proof: a cheeky email asking for an invoice of £1000 to be sent out, 3 days after an agreement was reached(over the phone) that £2000 more will be paid before the certificate is issued. I replied to that email, asking for confirmation that the amount was wrong and re-stating the correct amount. I was again called on the phone, to be told that he has changed his mind and that's all he is willing to pay, if not, he will be getting a cert of someone else. Good thing is, I still have access to the property and the electrical installation is still being worked on(hehe). I decide when it's complete. I spoke to NICEIC and the rules are thus: on completion, a certificate should be issued. I asked: 'how long after completion, exactly?' She said that preferably after the work on that installation has ceased and after leaving the property. Still, that allows for debate. But even so, I am the one who determines when the installation is complete, which is very good. After the cert has been issued, building control needs to be notified, within 29 days, she said. Again, not bad. It looks like the ball is in my court for now and I decide what needs to be done next. Once the last batch of money for the remedial works has been paid, I will proceed with finishing the install. Until then, the work has been stopped, due to breach of contract on their part. Hence, work will resume upon payment. Hence, it is up to them to pay. The decide how long they want to play silly buggers, I don't have £650 investment on the market, waiting to be sold, but them.
Then, once the money is with me, I will put the finishing touches to the install. How will it be before that happens? Hard to tell, as there have been only verbal contracts made until now. And even those change from one day to the next ;-). So, they better keep me sweet.
Now, once install is complete, I will be required(by the NICEIC rules)to issue a certificate for that property. I will and then send them a separate invoice for certification. That should level the playing field a bit and put everyone in their proper place. Tea, anyone ? Good thinking too, Sparky Pat, I like how you think. Will look into it.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I got chipped for 2k on extras once...I played nice and said I need to test the installation to issue certification. Once I had access I cut the whole lot out, pulling the cables as hard as I could so they pinged back up the stud walls. I would love to know how much it cost him to put right....I bet it was at least 4-6K as the place was finished/being snagged. It’s satisfying to know it ended up costing him more than the 2k worth of extras I was billing for.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Trying to edit here, but it won't let me anymore. Anyone else has that problem? I meant £650K invested, of course . And by the way, how much is the going rate for an EIC and a fire alarm cert these days?