Alterations to an installation with a 1980s (?) Wylex board protected by a single external RCD

[Soulcraft Electric]

Just carried out a pre-work survey (older property and I wanted to check it over) for a client that wants a few extra sockets and other bits and bobs. The installation has a 5-way Wylex board (I’m guessing 1980s - white/cream plastic) which has had RCD protection added externally at some point - so the entire installation us protected by the single RCD. Circuits are: water heater (no longer used for immersion), sockets (combined ring for downstairs and upstairs), lights downstairs, lights upstairs), and cooker. Earthing and bonding, Ze both fine. R1+ R2 on upstairs lighting intermittent - some roses without earths. Older imperial cable but IR tests L-N > 500, L-E > 500, N-E > 8 (suspect neutral caught or similar). If I add additional sockets, my work has to be compliant, but the single RCD plus the single ring clearly don’t comply with section 314 (division of installation)… What's the general feeling here? The client has only just purchased the property and is not cash rich... Ideally it would a new CU (plus remedial work as appropriate) but if I can remain compliant without that the client would prefer it.

Thoughts?

 

[Octopus]

FWIW I would make the changes but comment on the MWC about the single upfront RCD....

There are people still installing single rcd boards today

 

[Andy78]

Your work has to be compliant. You're not adding the upfront rcd so the division of installation issues are not part of the work you are carrying out.
Your cert should reflect the scope of works covered by it.

 

[Richard Burns]

There is a single non compliance, which does not cause danger but could cause inconvenience but not very relevant to a domestic property, in the existing installation.
If you are completing minor works then you are certifying that you have not made the installation worse in compliance and that your addition is compliant with current regulations.
I would recommend that improvements could be made and should be planned for in the near future, but I would have thought the current planned work could go ahead.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Division of circuits is not major issue. Its not going to be left any worse after you have added a few bits. Out radstock near bath a lot of the small houses have 1 circuit for sockets. 1 for lights. 1 for cooker and one for immersion or a boiler. Houses so small it doesnt need more.

As for missing cpc on lights. Not uncommon around our parts. Stick with class 2 fittings.
The electrical safety first best practice guide for light circuits without a cpc / changing cu gives some useful info

 

[westward10]

Imperial sized cables and the 1980s do not go together.

 

[telectrix]

only if you had some older stock.

 

[westward10]

Yes, it is funny I live in a road of ten houses built in the early 70s. Ours is all metric cabling (1.0 cpcs in the 2.5 cables) but up the top of the road where the building started so I am told, the cables are a mix of imperial and metric!

 

[telectrix]

thankfully, we are leaving the EU before the cretins make us drive on the wrong side of the road. wishful thinking now is :

1. back to feet and inches.
2. stranded T/E as in 7/029, 3/029, etc.
3. Red/Yellow/Black.
4. £.s.d.
5. acts of parliament to outlaw political correctness and erase the word "gender" from the English language.

 

[westward10]

Division of circuits is not major issue. Its not going to be left any worse after you have added a few bits. Out radstock near bath a lot of the small houses have 1 circuit for sockets. 1 for lights. 1 for cooker and one for immersion or a boiler. Houses so small it doesnt need more.

As for missing cpc on lights. Not uncommon around our parts. Stick with class 2 fittings.
The electrical safety first best practice guide for light circuits without a cpc / changing cu gives some useful info

Do people actually consult these Best Practice Guides, do you really carry one about?

 

[Octopus]

Do people actually consult these Best Practice Guides, do you really carry one about?

Don't carry them BUT as they are written in "plainer" English than the BYB they are easier to understand, there are fewer interpretations and therefore easier to remember ............

You could download them onto your mobile if you wanted!

The IET could learn A LOT by reading them and / or employing the people that write them!

 

[Toneyz]

Imperial sized cables and the 1980s do not go together.

Maybe the house is older with some of the wiring imperial and the consumer unit from the 1980's.

 

[littlespark]

My parents house was built in 74. same age as me, and it has solid cores in the T&E.... and that's T with an E... not just T on its own.
So I think your estimated age is a little on the young side.

Asking some of the older gentlemen on here, was there a changeover period in the regs when imperial changed to metric sized cables?
Like when the harmonized cable colours came in, we had 2 years to use up the old stock.

 

[telectrix]

change from imperial cableto the solid metric rubbish was early 70's, iirc

 

[Toneyz]

change from imperial cableto the solid metric rubbish was early 70's, iirc

Our house was built 72 and is metric T & E albeit 2.5 has 1.0 cpc.

 

[Toneyz]

My parents house was built in 74. same age as me, and it has solid cores in the T&E.... and that's T with an E... not just T on its own.
So I think your estimated age is a little on the young side.

Asking some of the older gentlemen on here, was there a changeover period in the regs when imperial changed to metric sized cables?
Like when the harmonized cable colours came in, we had 2 years to use up the old stock.

But you weren't supposed to mix the two in a new installation,well that's the rule by I went by at the time we were doing blocks of flats so I ordered loads to complete the ongoing block and new colours for blocks onwards.

 

[buzzlightyear]

The client has only just purchased the property and is not cash rich...

if he has not got the Moines to pay for this then he has not got the Moines for you. he could pay you £1 per week till its paid .

 

[Soulcraft Electric]

Thanks all for your input. I guess the key reference is from p. 116 of the Sparky's Guide to the Building Regs, that states:

"1.6 Regulation 4(3) states that when building work is complete, the building should be no more unsatisfactory in terms of complying with the applicable parts of Schedule 1 to the Building Regulations than before the building work was started. Therefore, when extending or altering an electrical installation, only the new work must meet current standards. There is no obligation to upgrade the existing installation unless either of the following applies:
(a) The new work adversely affects the safety of the existing installation.
(b) The state of the existing installation is such that the new work cannot be operated safely."

The L/N were both 7/029 with the CPC 3/029. I've attached a snap of the board, it's similar to some of these Wylex Standard white plastic fuseboxes - https://www.flameport.com/electric_museum/wylex_fuse_boxes/wylex_standard_white_plastic.cs4

View attachment IMG_0152.JPG