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Discuss Alternative cable to use instead of armoured when running external power circuit in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Sparky_marky2
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    Sparky_marky2 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    United kingdom
    Hi guys,

    New to the forum and would much appreciate your opinions, I'm wiring a power radial circuit for one double socket for a customer, however part of the run (2 meters) will run on the outside of the house and then back inside, up from the ground floor to the first floor. The customer has specified that they do not want conduit running outside the wall so thats 2.5 twin and earth out of the question but I was wondering are there any alternatives to using armoured SWA on an external wall for power for sockets?

    Also they've ruled out chasing the wall on the inside due to a big ornate feature on the wall.
    Thanks in advance,

    Mark
     
  2. Gavin John Hyde
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    Gavin John Hyde the lights are on but nobody is home

    Location:
    Kingswood
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services
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  3. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi Guys - other cables that may present themselves as "possible maybes" won't be as good and will look like SWA anyway, imho.
     
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  4. Sparky_marky2
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    Sparky_marky2 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    United kingdom
    I was looking into NYY-J cables or Multi Flex SY, has anyone had previous experience using these on a domestic install?

    Thanks again
     
  5. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Hituff .....
     
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  6. Sparky_marky2
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    Sparky_marky2 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    United kingdom
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2017
  7. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    Yes there are alternatives to SWA, but they don't provide identical protection so you need to consider what protection is required to select a suitable cable.

    I would say that SWA is not suitable for this application due to the need to find a way of properly glanding it.
    H07-RNF or hi-tuff/NYY-J type cables would probably be more suitable.
     
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  8. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    my only experience of SY in a domestic install was removing it after some idiot installed it outside
     
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  9. Sparky_marky2
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    Sparky_marky2 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    United kingdom
    Murdoch - :thumbsup:

    savesparks - yeh I was stood outside his house although its a bungalow, the garage is on the bottom and living room is above it and where the cable will be coming out of will be above 2m in height so out of the way on potential physical harm.. and thats why i was looking at alternatives to SWA due to the difficulties of having to gland it at one end.
     
  10. wirepuller
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    wirepuller Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    south uk
    I'll throw Pyro into the mix. No chance of anyone paying for it (or many DI's being able to use it). If you want discreet though......
     
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  11. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    What is the relevance of it being above 2m?
    I'm not aware of anything that requires SWA below 2m,
     
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  12. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    It would be my choice if I had to do it, but then I've got a bunch of offcuts in stock.
     
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  13. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    Would he even know what it is?
    I can picture it now,the DI trying to fit a tap on the end :)
     
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  14. Sparky_marky2
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    Sparky_marky2 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    United kingdom
    Davesparks - not necessarily a requirement just less chance of the cable being hit by a car on the driveway if its higher up and out of reach, thanks for the help and advice its much appreciated.

    Des 56 - :D
     
  15. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    If there is a chance of that kind of mechanical damage occurring then SWA is not suitable, you would need steel conduit or MICC to have any chance of resisting the impact (they wouldn't survive the collapse of the wall though). But the correct way to deal with such a risk would be to find an alternative route.

    Although I think it's entirely unnecessary to consider being hit by a car on a domestic driveway as a possible risk to a cable on a wall, the probability is minimal.
     
  16. Sparky_marky2
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    Sparky_marky2 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    United kingdom
    "they wouldn't survive the collapse of the wall though" :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
    Dave as always thanks for the detailed response its definitely insightful
     
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  17. Richard Burns
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    Richard Burns Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Business Name:
    Richard Burns
    Hi tuff is the same as NYY-J.
    The link you have is to tough rubber sheathed cable, it is a cable I would use outside, but it is only recommended for short period outside use, the next similar cable is H07RNF cable that has a neoprene sheath and so will not have the potential to absorb water, apparently H05RNF is not suitable for long term outside use, but I am not sure why.
    Any waterproof and UV stable cable would be suitable for use outside, however you then have to consider the environment in which it is installed to see if the cable type is suitable for the environment. In your case the likelihood of anything other than rain and sun hitting it seem limited.
     
  18. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    Those are both suitable for use outside, but H05RNF is not commonly available.
    3183trs such as linked above is normally H05RRF I think, which is rubber sheathed and insulated.
     
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  19. Richard Burns
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    Richard Burns Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Business Name:
    Richard Burns
    Thank you for that this made me check the H05RNF cable again and it is suitable for outside use, the last place I checked it was not!
    However it does appear it might be obsolete (why?) and may not meet the construction products regulations.
    TRS is H05RRF as far as I know.
     
  20. mattg4321
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    mattg4321 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South East
    I'd use NYY-J
     
  21. Dave OCD
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    Dave OCD Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Cornwall
    Business Name:
    Hendry Electrical Services
    Surely with M.I. you'd face the same issues with glanding properly as you would with SWA in this scenario ? I'd tell the customer that a short piece of conduit was the only economical solution, however where there is minimal risk of mechanical damage I've seen a lot of T&E externally clipped with no apparent ill effects, not for many years anyway. Just saying.... :)
     
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  22. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Is there not a conventional route internally?? I can't even remember the last time I even contemplated doing something like you are suggesting in a house?
     
  23. Lucien Nunes
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    Lucien Nunes Mercury Arc Rectifier Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    London
    So would I. Slim, unobtrusive, impact resistant, UV resistant etc. If 2.5 T+E was adequate for the circuit then 2L1.5 MI will probably be suitable, only 7mm diameter including PVC oversheath. It can be glanded within the depth of the wall, into a coupler bushed into a rear knockout of a flush metal socket box. Using an earth-tail seal overcomes the need to access the gland nut to prove maintainability of the CPC connection. No-brainer in my book.
     
  24. Sparky_marky2
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    Sparky_marky2 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    United kingdom
    Hi guys, update: i went to 3 wholesalers intending to get myself some Hi tuff/NYY-J and all i got from all three suppliers was a blank stare and that they would have to order it in specially, ended up using t+e in conduit as the customer wanted it done ASAP... at least next time i know to order in advance.
     
  25. HandySparks
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    HandySparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Hampshire
    Business Name:
    Neish Electrical Services
  26. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    I agree but the problem is the cost, it's only oddballs like you and I who have stocks and offcuts of this stuff on the shelf and buying it new is just ridiculous now.
    Plus I don't do general domestic work like this, and I assume you probably don't do too much of it either.
     
  27. NDG Elecs
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    NDG Elecs Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Tyne and Wear
    Yeah most wholesalers I go in don't stock it, and they usually try to sell me SY control cable instead....always have a bit of 2.5 and 1.5 NYY in my lock up now, and order more from TLC when I am running low.
     
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