Anyone go the BBB to hand - reg regarding mix and match

[Ian1981]

It is a long awaited Reg in my opinion. If you mix and match the onus is upon you to provide the necessary information and documentation the same as any manufacturer does to verify compliance with relevant standards.

Sadly It won’t stop people doing it tho.
The ones who constantly post on other sites asking what mcb/rcbo will fit in an xxxxxxxx consumer unit.

 

[davesparks]

Like Hager getting in the reg about MF junction boxes to stop Wago from getting into the european market?

This seems highly unlikely, do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Wago are a German company and have been in the European since day 1.

 

[The Ghost]

This seems highly unlikely, do you have any evidence to support this claim?

No but you can look into the history of the Amd 3 and the reg regards MF and Hager on the JPEL board and wago trying to get into the european market at the same time as the reg was inserted, and draw your own inferences. Wago were held up by this reg and getting MF rating on their product. As to it seeming highly unlikely, don't be naive, it is part of the cut and thrust of normal business practice. (526.3 17th ed amd 3)

 

[LankyWill]

I thinks it’s just a plea to get people to buy manufacturers equipment, if they are designed to the BS standard they should be compatible with each other. It’s like saying you fitted a Hager board and now must fit Hager accessories because they are compatible.

 

[Wilko]

With my tin hat at the ready - majority of single phase 100A installations have fault current less than 3kA, obviating the need for the 16kA rating (6kA being plenty ...). Other than this rating all the other factors seem to be good workmanship (?).

 

[Deleted member 26818]

With my tin hat at the ready - majority of single phase 100A installations have fault current less than 3kA, obviating the need for the 16kA rating (6kA being plenty ...). Other than this rating all the other factors seem to be good workmanship (?).

I would have to disagree with that.
My experience is that the PFC is often greater than 3kA and can be greater than 6kA.
Yhough, can’t say that I have experienced many times where the PFC is greater than 10kA.

 

[Ian1981]

I would have to disagree with that.
My experience is that the PFC is often greater than 3kA and can be greater than 6kA.
Yhough, can’t say that I have experienced many times where the PFC is greater than 10kA.

Really?
Greater then 3ka on a 100 amp single phase supply?
I’ve never experienced it personally

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Really?
Greater then 3ka on a 100 amp single phase supply?
I’ve never experienced it personally

Don’t quite understand your incredulity.
Why exactly do you thing they introduced type testing and the 16kA breaking capacity?
It wasn’t because PFC is never greater than 3kA.

 

[Ian1981]

Don’t quite understand your incredulity.
Why exactly do you thing they introduced type testing and the 16kA breaking capacity?
It wasn’t because PFC is never greater than 3kA.

It maybe type tested to 16ka but it’s hard to imagine an 100amp single phase installation with a fault current at the origin of over 3ka.
As I said never experienced one so high personally as I’ve never had a ZE low enough even with any parallel connections.
Perhaps you have with installations so close to the transformer?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You are aware that PFC is the highest of the measured values for PEFC or PSCC?

 

[Octopus]

Back to the OP ......................

 

[davesparks]

I thinks it’s just a plea to get people to buy manufacturers equipment, if they are designed to the BS standard they should be compatible with each other. It’s like saying you fitted a Hager board and now must fit Hager accessories because they are compatible.

But the BS doesn’t set out the exact design details of MCBs etc so each manufacturer designs their own which are different.

It is not like saying you must fit the same brand of accessories as CU, it is saying that the components you fit inside the CU must be designed to fit inside that CU.

 

[davesparks]

I thinks it’s just a plea to get people to buy manufacturers equipment, if they are designed to the BS standard they should be compatible with each other. It’s like saying you fitted a Hager board and now must fit Hager accessories because they are compatible.

But the BS doesn’t set out the exact design details of MCBs etc so each manufacturer designs their own which are different.

It is not like saying you must fit the same brand of accessories as CU, it is saying that the components you fit inside the CU must be designed to fit inside that CU.

 

[Ian1981]

You are aware that PFC is the highest of the measured values for PEFC or PSCC?

Wow is it?!!!

 

[davesparks]

Really?
Greater then 3ka on a 100 amp single phase supply?
I’ve never experienced it personally

If you take the accuracy of most mft’s and standard loop testers at low resistances in to account then you may well have come across installations with higher pfc without realising it.

 

[Toneyz]

I thinks it’s just a plea to get people to buy manufacturers equipment, if they are designed to the BS standard they should be compatible with each other. It’s like saying you fitted a Hager board and now must fit Hager accessories because they are compatible.

A brand is only going to type test with their own brand because that's whats expected to be fitted.

 

[Pete999]

A brand is only going to type test with their own brand because that's whats expected to be fitted.

Don't necessarily agree with that comment Ant, you have been around too long and have enough experience to know that is not always the case.

 

[Toneyz]

Don't necessarily agree with that comment Ant, you have been around too long and have enough experience to know that is not always the case.

Pete, A manufacturer is only going to test their devices in their manufactured consumer unit, distribution board or enclosure to the standard. As far as the manufacturer of the product is concerned this is how it is designed and expected to be installed. Why should they spend money testing if how other competitor manufacturer products comply with theirs.

 

[Wilko]

If you take the accuracy of most mft’s and standard loop testers at low resistances in to account then you may well have come across installations with higher pfc without realising it.

Ok, can you advise what tools should be used please?

 

[Richard Burns]

Back to the OP ......................

Effectively to comply with the requirements of BS7671 you can fit a Wylex circuit breaker into that board and your work will be compliant, however referring to the condition of the existing installation you will be able to note some differences from the design specifications of Wylex!
It is possible but unlikely that Wylex might have type tested their assembly with Harok parts, but unless you know you can err on the side of caution and assume it is a non compliance.
It is also possibly worth noting that if the consumer unit had been modified to fit the differing breakers then there may be a risk that the manufacturers parts may not now fit.

But if the enclosure was bought as an empty enclosure would the same rules still apply, and for din rail enclosures designed to take circuit breakers and the like, what range of equipment is approved by the manufacturers to fit in their enclosures?