Are certificates worth the paper they are printed on?

[Gavin John Hyde]

Talking to a property developer today, he is in the market for an electrician for hsi next new build.
He recently built a building with 6 flats, the 3 on the left are identical layout and the 3 on the left are identical layouts.
He has no confidence in the certificates he has been given by the NICEIC AC who did the work as the certificates are basically copies of each other, the ones for the flats on the left are identical and the ones for the flats on the right are identical.
It looks like they tested one flat then thought the 2 upstairs are the same so we will just duplicate the readings. assuming they even tested the first one?
There is no way 3 flats even if the same physical layout would have exactly identical test results. you will have variation even if 0.1 or 0.01 of an ohm. to top it off the other 3 have identical results too.
He has taken up the issue with the NICEIC who you guessed it have asked the contractor to put it right! and check the test results. The contractor assures him that they tested each flat individually and there is nothing wrong with the readings.
It does raise the point though that this whole Qualified Supervisor thing is a farce... some desk bound person who never sees the site signs off the paperwork as complying and checks the numbers are within the allowed norms. Surely they must have clocked the results are identical, but i know of a couple of companies with just one qualified electrician acting as QS who has a gang of barley qualified electricians mates and labourers doing rewires, He doesn't even question what hes given on the test results and signs it off before starting the next job?? My old boss would have likely sacked me if i fiddled the test results like this lot did. There will come a time when something goes wrong and the guy who signs it off gets dragged before the courts.

 

[Octopus]

The contractor should pay you to test a couple of the flats and compare the results ........... there's no way 2 flats would have identical results............ IMHO

and as for the NICEIC - get the contractor to put it right ............... yeah, just jog on and collect your salaries and perks .................. you need to stand up for the WORKERS...... and take complaints seriously.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

The contractor should pay you to test a couple of the flats and compare the results ........... there's no way 2 flats would have identical results............ IMHO

and as for the NICEIC - get the contractor to put it right ............... yeah, just jog on and collect your salaries and perks .................. you need to stand up for the WORKERS...... and take complaints seriously.

I will be doing just that for him when he gets back to me. its not just 2 flats its 3 flats identical then another 3 flats identical!! the AC has shot themselves in the foot though as now they have missed out on a far bit of work because of it and other people are saying one or two things about them. word travels quick it seems...

 

[Loki]

Personally if I was them I would put it in writing to the electrician saying that if they dont retest the flats correctly then the owner will get say you to test them & when the results are found not to match remind them that the electrical installation certificate is signed by them & is a legal document. Also throw in that falsifying results on a legal document is a criminal offence. Just make sure you give them reasonal amount of time to sort it.

To blunt? Probably lol

Michael

 

[Wilko]

Anyone can make a mistake, but this does not seem like one. Any suspect certs require retest in my opinion. Just saying.

 

[streamer]

Also throw in that falsifying results on a legal document is a criminal offence. Just make sure you give them reasonal amount of time to sort it.

It's not a legal document. I do agree though that the contractor has been taking the p**s!

 

[static zap]

Just hope that wasn't calculated ! Perfect result .

 

[Des 56]

Its a shame to say but this is nothing new or even rare
It will not change in the foreseeable future either

These documents rarely get scrutinised, the system usually lets the culprit get away with falsifying results and its done on a grand scale in domestic wiring

 

[Phil Thompson]

The alarm bells would be ringing with me too, are each Appartment identical to each other? In regards to faces etc?

Even then I'd not see the 3 being the same results, been years since I wired apartments, but then the ground and first floor would be identical, however the top floor not having a battened concrete floor above it but the roof trusses meant it was completely different.

Is that how the ones you mention are done?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Is that how the ones you mention are done?

The 3 flats on both left and right side are identical in size and layout, I am not sure on whether the roof/ceiling on top one is joists and insulation above plaster board or not or something more modern and technical. but the flats are identical in layout and positions of fittings identical for each group of 3. Circuits identical but i still find it hard to accept the results would be identical for all tests...

 

[FatAlan]

Doesn't matter whether the document is legal or not. As part of the service he's agreed or contracted to provide an installation certificate. If he's conducted tests on one flat and just copied the results for the rest of the flats without testing contrary contract then he's created a false document with intent to deceive.