Are wevall installing the wrong equipment?

[vinceearn]

It came to light recently that electrium (own wylex,crabtree,volex,etc,etc,) and MK are supplying cooker switches,shower pull switches,dp switches etc built to a bsen number that's unsuitable for isolation according to the big green book! I spent ages on the phone and emailing trying to get an answer for them to finally admit they advertise/sell isolators unsuitable for isolation so when we put a new shower circuit in we need to take into account the shower manufacturers instructions that ask for a double pole ISOLATOR and we've been fitting an unsuitable SWITCH! only Hager appear to be the correct bsen number!

 

[The Ghost]

I wonder if that kind of business/money got it changed in the BYB? Must have a look. Where did you get that from in the BGB? And in what way is it unsuitable?

 

[Pete999]

It came to light recently that electrium (own wylex,crabtree,volex,etc,etc,) and MK are supplying cooker switches,shower pull switches,dp switches etc built to a bsen number that's unsuitable for isolation according to the big green book! I spent ages on the phone and emailing trying to get an answer for them to finally admit they advertise/sell isolators unsuitable for isolation so when we put a new shower circuit in we need to take into account the shower manufacturers instructions that ask for a double pole ISOLATOR and we've been fitting an unsuitable SWITCH! only Hager appear to be the correct bsen number!

Have you checked in the BYB?

 

[vinceearn]

They should be to BSEN60669-4 but are to BSEN60669-1 if my memory is correct and yes I've checked the 17th bible several times hoping it was a mistake

 

[The Ghost]

Oh ---- I just did one. But still what is the difference?
Oh ok well it appears 60669-1 is not suitable for isolation but for emergency and functional switching but 60669-2-4 is capable of all three.

 

[vinceearn]

The response from the manufacturers was basically oops and when I pointed out several adverts say they comply with BS7671 and yet they don't the answer was they will do as soon as they can arrange it!

 

[vinceearn]

Oh ---- I just did one. But still what is the difference?

Basically its not tested as an isolator its been tested as a switch so isn't suitable for electrical isolation, in theory someone could put a claim in pretending to have had a shock and you'd have to admit it was installed wrong a no win no fee rogue solicitor would have a field day

 

[The Ghost]

I see well if it was a "skilled" person then they should have known the difference and were therefore negligent. If it was an "ordinary" person they should not have been poking around with things they are not "skilled" to do, therefore also negligent. Well that's my excuse anyway. And in fact I beleive that applies only to TT and IT systems not T-N-CS.

 

[Dave OCD]

I wonder if they have less than 3mm contact gap ? Doubt it though....

 

[vinceearn]

Its a can of worms, guarantee claims on showers the "technician" always blames installer error (it burst into flames because the water pressure spiked)so a get out of jail free for them

 

[westward10]

Are the manufacturers calling them switches or isolators.

 

[Wilko]

From BYB Table 53.4 it's true that 60669-1 does not include isolator function, but every mcb to 60898 does. A skilled person would use safe isolation with the mcb as the isolator. Or have I missed something?