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unguided1

Hi Guys


I am a self employed heating engineer and I am extremly unhappy with the cost of becoming MCS accredited, but what I am truly angry about is this ridiculous QMS beurocracy that is not a help to my business but as I see it a hinderence. If you are interested in what I and many heating engineers have to say then learn more here Changing the MCS

If you would like to add your voice to the campaign then voice it on this blog
Trade Only: Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up


This campaign is just the start to fight the constant beurocracy within the whole building industry, I know that electricians have suffered greatly with the constant inane changes that have been going on in your industry and now If you want to take up renewables you have even greater costs regulations and trainning to contend with, Not so bad if you run a big company but if your self employed the costs can be prohibitve.

Whether your for or against this campaign please let me know or better still add your voice to the above blog, The person running this blog is the guy who succsesfully campaigned for boiler scrappage scheme, so has a track record for getting things done.

Regards
Mike
 
Thanks Markc
I appreciate the effort whether for or against all input is gratefully recieved.
regards
Mike
 
@unguided1, appreciate what your doing, and having read the various posts on the plumbers forum, I see where you guys are coming from.

Would anyone have got away with this on Solar PV: Kingspan HP200 30 tube install (Maybe they would?)
 
Hi worcester

Thank you for taking the time to visit us If you feel our greivance is tenible please post your support on MickW s blog.

Regards
Mike
 
So cmon guys are if you are a one man band or a small business are you truly happy with the way your industry is going and are you happy with the MCS just looking for feed back either way
 
Actually our (personal) feelings are that MCS should be tightened up and should cover also the installation side with some measure of minimum standards, it has the opportunity to be a proper certification, but it does appear to be lost in bureaucracy.

Not sure what paperwork we'd cut out, most of it is embedded in our way of working now.
 
I am total agreement that their should be more focus on the engineering side, obviousley I am completley unaware of what you guys do with PV but when you look at solar thermal there are similarities with the roof work side of things.


Also for us plumbers is the fact that our trade has been splintered over the last twenty years, to the point where now you are literaly forced to specialise, for example Gas Safe for Gas, Heatas for solid fuel, Oftec for oil and now MCS for renewables, But there is no focus at all on the systems that these different technologies are implemented onto the system, also as a one man band the physical cost of being a member of these professional bodies is cost prohibitive.

I realise that you guys have had to go through all these different editions to the point that you are now I believe on 17th, I notice that they are mucking around with the colours of your cables which I find excedingly confusing, but how many bodies do you guys have to be a member of or are is it just plumbers whos industry is being pulled apart to force us to specialise
 
hi just read the blog,

i can honestly say that the costs for me to get to the mcs stage are frightening , also all the jobs that appear round my area seem to be carried out by a well no gas company if they are a electricity provider and then fit panels to your roof are they on to a winner if this scheme was backed by the goverment
 
Hi dggreenberr

thank you for taking the time to read the blog it is appreciated did you add your comments to the blog as this is what we are looking for, more comments, I do know that some major manufacturers are now on side but we still need to show solidarity to get things changed, I have seen many threads on here complaing about all the new regs and trainning you are having to do this is fine if you are on for a big firm but if you are a one man band it is a struggle so make you voice heard and make a difference
 
Mike,

Are you mcs registered?

Hi Cider No I am not and I have made it a point to refuse to be MCS accredited until something is actually done to help one man bands and small businesses, I do however currently do MCS sign offs and inspections and also Inspect MCS accredited installers work. DECC have acknowledged today that small business needs to be looked at http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...ogeneration/2015-microgeneration-strategy.pdf

In that document, the importance of small business is recognised in Action 25 and the explanation in clause 4.14.

Action 25
Industry bodies to reach out to the small installer community who are potential advocates of microgeneration technologies as part of their everyday business.
4.14 At present, small installer companies may be not be clarifying the case for microgeneration to potential consumers. The trade associations and other industry bodies have an ideal opportunity to work with their respective members to promote microgeneration. SMEs will want clear concise information about what the opportunities of microgeneration mean for them and how they can get involved



 
Hi Cider No I am not and I have made it a point to refuse to be MCS accredited until something is actually done to help one man bands and small businesses

Something I did until the penny finally dropped that without accepting the inevitable I would have to leave the industry.

I do however currently do MCS sign offs and inspections and also Inspect MCS accredited installers work.

Now that bugs the hell out of me and you've lost the moral high ground in my eyes.
 
Hi Solarsavings I apologise to yourself if what I am doing offends you personally, But I have no intention of stopping what I am doing my reason for saying this is I am making a stand against the phyisical cost of MCS and this ridiculous QMS for one man bands and small businesses, I did start the process of being MCS accredited but after my first assesment I realised that MCS had nothing to do with the state of an installation and was only about the paperwork, I lost all confidence in it especially when I found that the person who was assesing me did not have a clue about heatpumps or heating, to the point where he did not even know that Glycol was used in the system or that it had to be a food grade non toxic glycol. Please believe me my qualifications and experiance more than cover the work that I do, and I have on a number of occasions had to put work right that has been done by so called MCS accredited companies. If you look in the plumbers forum, in the renewables section and look at a thread called heat pump horror stories heatpump horror stories This will hopefully let you understand where I am coming from. Also I would say that as you have found what I am doing objectionable please vent your frustrations about me on this Blog Trade Only: Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up
My reason for this is I want the muppets who have started this debarcle to know that there are some serious flaws in the MCS, I can assure you I am not a cowboy, I am a professional and if I have found a way you can guarantee the cowboys will
 
OK, I'm off to work right now so will have to leave this until this evening except to say. Gassafe register all over again!!!!!!! and argi time all over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I'm sure you know that to be a trainer you only need have passed the same course that you are planning to teach(2 days?) no real world experience needed. Oh and an A1 assessors certificate. Hardly surprising then that course providers know so little.

I had one of the old greenskies assessors do a couple of solar thermal installs for me, never again.
 
Mike.

I am a one man band-small business.
I have been in the trade 27 years.
MCS the way I see it is about accountability.
That is how things are these days.
I have my mcs inspection monday.
After my business has been inspected any non-conformitys will be noted and its up to me to correct them.
Thats how it is. It will be my fault, my problem, as everything required is there in black and white for anyone to find and read.
It is an extremely big thing for a small business to embark on, but the choice was mine to make, like was yours.
If I jack it in like, like you did it wont be the fault of MCS but mine.
I will be accountable.
I understand you are extremely competant at your job, but that is not a good enough reason to get MCS.
Those companies who are MCS but doing crap jobs will not last, as within their quality system they are stateing how they will operate.
If customers accept poor work and pay someone else to sort it that is their mistake.
If they take legal action they will win every time, hands down.
Thats what mcs is about, having a QMS system to be accountable.

cider
 
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Im a 1 man band, and Im quite happy in principle with the set up costs, however its the associated registrations that get me.....Gemserve, REAL, and the way MCS is not combined with Part P. The speed at which the whole process crawls along is frustrating too.

Paperwork, no problems with that either, because it has tightened up my business procedures and the manner in which I operate overall. I have applied the QMS to my whole business and not just the solar side. Customers are quite impressed that their money for deposits now bounces through a client account, I have a better relationship with suppliers, and my whole business presence has been lifted since passing the MCS assessment, with ease I may add. The only point I would like changing is the need to acknowledge the way a small company operates in relation to MCS i.e. Im not likely to have a meeting with myself or complete impartial audits by myself.

Im not worried so much about cowboy installers, just the big nationals who bend the rules and get away with it.
 
Hi Everyone,

Whilst I am not yet MCS registered and am about 12 months off from being. I hear a lot of people saying of the massive costs to start MCS registration, some even quoting 20k+. Can someone please enlighten us to the costs involved because I have looked into this and there must be hidden cost after certain stages as I get no where near such inflated costs.

I understand paperwork is lengthy, however this is not a cost as such as you do this. IHMO!!!

Please someone put some ball park figures down for MCS registration only!!!!

Many Thanks,
 
Look into it, allow for everything you can think of.

Then times it by 4.

PS I think in 12 months the boat may have well and trully sailed and docked at the other side
 
Renewables is here to stay! The boat will not be leaving any time soon!

I understand and have thought of everything I can but why times it by 4?????
 

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