Average Price for PIRs?

[Spazz]

What price a pir ? hardly worth the bother competing for them

The down and outs used to sell PIRs on the streets of Swansea
Then they found out they could get a better price for selling the Big issue

So are you saying you dont do PIRs then Des??

How much do you do them for if you do? Average Price for 2+2 (10 circuits inc lights)

 

[mackers]

Why won't they deal with ltd company's?

 

[Spazz]

Once bitten - twice Shy is the best way to explain

A limited company can do something not right and dissolve
Same as they can owe loads of money and dissolve - debt is written off.

I know they have issued a few CCJs against Limited companies and each time the limited company has dissolved so they refuse to deal with them anymore

 

[Des 56]

I did them for a council for a couple of years on contract ,2 per day (I wouldn't entertain these 4 and 6 a day that some would say they get done)

I suppose if you live in a holiday/student or city area,then it may be worthwhile doing them,but personally,no the price they get done for by the big boys, sort of makes me think it would be lunacy to rely on that type of work

As for pricing,the best method I have come across was to charge 40 minutes per circuit and 40 minutes per dist board
Multiply this by your own per hour rate and bingo

 

[mackers]

Usually other way round letting agent owe the limited company money for works carried out

 

[Plonker 3]

Its worth competing for them if you have 400 houses to do every year and 75% of them every 6 month!

Only until next year when the contract comes up for renewal and they tell the next contractor that many properties need testing annually and can you do a good price for them.

You lose contract because you prices are rising. So they promise the world to someone else.

 

[Spazz]

Fantastic - great advice Des - this is what I have been looking for to be honest

Gives me something to work to now.


The only reason im looking at them is because I have a contract to maintain 400 agent letted houses and the agent has asked me to give him a price and he will change his policies to state that all properties they manage must have PIRs on them and they must be done every 5 years or change of occupancy.
It covers their backs as well, plus they make a 10% sub ontop of what I charge them.
I charge the Agent £100 for a job, they charge Landlord £110

Works well - I get the work and they get an income off it as well, and I get big contracts like this and recommendations to landlord run properties.

One of the ones Im working for has over 450 properties hes let out in last year, 125 he manages, other 325 are landlord managed and he is passing all my details over to them as well.
I do however see it coming to "sign off my install please" - My answer is Ya sure but it will take several days as I got to rip it all out and re install it myself!
Wont accept anything else - or otherwise go find someone else sorry!

 

[Spazz]

Only until next year when the contract comes up for renewal and they tell the next contractor that many properties need testing annually and can you do a good price for them.

You lose contract because you prices are rising. So they promise the world to someone else.

Let them its down to quality as well!

I am a one man band with low prices so my prices are flexible!


I not no overheads to speak of - I can charge what I want to who I want (of course if the pay it)


I look at a job and think how much do I want to make off it - not how much can I make off these??



Its just a different way of thinking!

 

[Des 56]

Its worth competing for them if you have 400 houses to do every year and 75% of them every 6 month!

My experience is that firstly they make big promises and a lot of it is bull
I may be wrong,but a 6 month change of occupancy, will be a very limited visual examination, just to supplement a full blown eicr, which could be every couple of years

 

[Spazz]

My experience is that firstly they make big promises and a lot of it is bull
I may be wrong,but a 6 month change of occupancy, will be a very limited visual examination, just to supplement a full blown eicr, which could be every couple of years

Exactly Des

limited problems so if my prices suit the job, with them making their bit on top they cant moan!

If they leave after a year - thats a year of free advertising I got - priceless!
1 year experience and I been paid for it - priceless

 

[Plonker 3]

Let them its down to quality as well!

I am a one man band with low prices so my prices are flexible!


I not no overheads to speak of - I can charge what I want to who I want (of course if the pay it)


I look at a job and think how much do I want to make off it - not how much can I make off these??



Its just a different way of thinking!

They wont care about quality just about the cert, but fair play to you for getting the contract in this climate, certainly going to provide a regular income for a sustained period of time.

As Des has said though don't be reliant on them as a lot of the work could become just visual very quickly.

 

[Spazz]

They wont care about quality just about the cert, but fair play to you for getting the contract in this climate, certainly going to provide a regular income for a sustained period of time.

As Des has said though don't be reliant on them as a lot of the work could become just visual very quickly.

I am thinking about offering a set charge to the agent for unlimited number of inspections over a year (for 100 named properties) for a set fee, that way he has paid up front

What do people think

Cold work out really low for him - 1 off or monthly payments garented for me, and a written contact so if he stops DDs then I can take him to court, breach of contract!


Say for example:

my rate is £100 per day

100 properties: £2000 for unlimited inspections on them - max of 3 per year (presuming all 2+2 - of course will have to work it out correctly!)

Should cost him £3,000 but he gets it for 2/3rds price (£66 per day) - he can sell the service to the landlords at £110 per day or what ever he wants and he makes his profit and I get mine.

Im happy for £66 on average per day - also thinking that not all properties will need to be done every 6 months as some are long tendencies!

Do that on 4 agents: £8,000 for year


Also bearing in mind they are also stating that all properties must be RCD protected and some of the houses are the old black boxes you cant put RCDs in easy so new CUs as well, and those wont need PIRs as they will have EICRs done on installation.

 

[UNG]

I am thinking about offering a set charge to the agent for unlimited number of inspections over a year (for 100 named properties) for a set fee, that way he has paid up front

What do people think

my rate is £100 per day

100 properties: £2000 for unlimited inspections on them - max of 3 per year (presuming all 2+2 - of course will have to work it out correctly!)

Should cost him £3,000 but he gets it for 2/3rds price (£66 per day) - he can sell the service to the landlords at £110 per day or what ever he wants and he makes his profit and I get mine.

Im happy for £66 on average per day - also thinking that not all properties will need to be done every 6 months as some are long tendencies!

Do that on 4 agents: £8,000 for year

So you are not offering unlimited inspections as you limit them

With regard to the charity pricing you appear to be offering doing it cheap now because for whatever reason you cannot earn more than 12K is the downward spiral increasing your prices by 25% year on year for a couple of years after will not be that easy to do especially in the current economic climate and the resistance to double digit increases, also why are your circumstances being used to help a letting agent make easy money

In my opinion price it real or not at all as all you are doing is setting the bar for a dutch auction and forcing already low rates even further down

 

[serenedream]

It is totally dependant on the size of the premises, the no. of circuits and how old it is. The circuits may not be marked or have no schedule. This will make the job harder and take more time. Also the location in the UK as London and other cities are more expensive. The only true way to find out is ring around local electrical firms and ask. This will not be conclusive as all jobs vary.

 

[D80]

£66 a day for doing PIR's? Minimum wage gets you near £50 a day without the overheads and thinking.

2 25% price increases will be hard to pull off, you'd be better pitching yourself around that rate now. If needs be sub the work out to a half decent spark to keep your own profit down. Or do the work and buy a load of new tools/van/stock etc. Just get that profit down to required level, but don't be doing jobs for peanuts.

 

[technospark]

£25 for a PIR! Ludicrous. We charge an enhanced rate for the up skilled work of doing a PIR and preparing the accompanying letter and a narrative which can extend to several pages of typing. We base our charges on a rate of £43.50 per hour for inspection & testing and our website quotes a rate for a typical domestic dwelling. This rate has just gone up from £170 to £265 + VAT to reflect the increased amount of admin time imposed by the new Electrical Installation Condition Reports. (Do not forget the PIR report ceased to be valid as of 1.1.12 and you can no longer use any of the old PIR stationary, it will not be accepted by lanlords or insurance companies)
We seem to have no shortage of work at this sort of rate and are constantly picking top the pieces left for landlords whom have had certification produced by others rejected.
To suggest that a full report can be done at anywhere near £25 shows a complete misunderstanding of what is involved

 

[Spazz]

I think your getting mixed up techno

EICR for new installation
PIR for existing installation every 5 years or occupant changes


In regards to maximum I said max 3 based on that is the max number of times a property can change hands in 1 year with these agents, they dont change more frequently as the tenancy is 6 months and the tenant is liable for 6 months, I know problems do come along and people have to move out quicker, but this is rarely the case.


If you where in the situation I am in you would understand!
I am new to the trade but with 6 years experience doing it as DIY (Dreaded DIY I know) and declaring it via LABC as my grandfather was never willing to pay for NICEIC - dont know why - tight old man I think! - yes hes an old welsh farmer!


To be honest everyone on here is saying offer services for free to get experience - well, Im undercharging for experience so I can still live.

There is no law saying how much we have to charge, I can charge as I want (as long as the customer is willing to pay) same as anyone else in the trade - between several trades in an area - sets the average price.

 

[technospark]

I think your getting mixed up techno

EICR for new installation
PIR for existing installation every 5 years or occupant changes

PIRs ceased to exist as of 01.01.12 with the coming into force of the Amendment no 1 issue of BS7671. From this date BS7671 no longer recognises the term PIR, and PIRs have ceased to exist or have any legal standing. EICs still exist in a modified form. EICRs are never used on a new installation unless the contractor has ceased to exist and the work is being certified by someone else in conjunction with building control.
If you do not have the latest issue of 7671 to hand then there is a lot of information on the Electrical safety council website particularly the "Best Practice Guide 4 issue 3 " which is a free download

 

[aknde]

I think your getting mixed up techno

EICR for new installation
PIR for existing installation every 5 years or occupant changes

PIRs ceased to exist as of 01.01.12 with the coming into force of the Amendment no 1 issue of BS7671. From this date BS7671 no longer recognises the term PIR, and PIRs have ceased to exist or have any legal standing. EICs still exist in a modified form. EICRs are never used on a new installation unless the contractor has ceased to exist and the work is being certified by someone else in conjunction with building control.
If you do not have the latest issue of 7671 to hand then there is a lot of information on the Electrical safety council website particularly the "Best Practice Guide 4 issue 3 " which is a free download

What is now used opposed to PIRs and what cert is used on new installations?

ps thanks for the BPG4I3 Dload

 

[technospark]

The PIR Has become the EICR (electrical installation condition report)
New installations are certified on the new version of the EIC as before