Discuss Bathroom fixtures on fused spurs in the Industrial Electrician Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I have a job where customer wants 'Heated towel rail', 'Whirlpool bath' and 'Heated floor' all in same bathroom with no cupboard space to put fused spurs. As I will have to mount the fused spurs outside the bathroom on the landing wall is there a way round having a bank of 3 fused conection units, alight switch and the control for the heated floor. ???
 
Could you put the fused spurs in the loft and use a grid switch with DP's to isolate them?

Depending on the cover going over the side of the bath, the spurs can go there. I believe, if the bath panel is fixed in place, zone 1 rules don't necessarily apply. A far wiser spark can correct me if I am wrong?
 
Sidekick says he has to mount them on the outside, I'm assuming the bathroom has already been tiled and doesn't want to make a pigs ear of it.

Am I right about under the bath gents?
 
Sidekick says he has to mount them on the outside, I'm assuming the bathroom has already been tiled and doesn't want to make a pigs ear of it.

Am I right about under the bath gents?

You are quite correct if the panel can only be removed by a tool then it is considered to be outside the zones.
 
FCUs are allowed in zone 2, IMO.
Only SELV switches and sockets, and BSEN61558-2-5 shaver supplies if fixed where direct spray is unlikely allowed in Zone 2, any SELV source must be outside the zones. General LV accessories are allowed outside the zones, with the exception of socket-outlets which must be 3m horizontally from the boundary of Zone 1.
 
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Only SELV switches and sockets, and BSEN61558-2-5 shaver supplies if fixed where direct spray is unlikely allowed in Zone 2, any SELV source must be outside the zones. General LV accessories are allowed outside the zones, with the exception of socket-outlets which must be 3m horizontally from the boundary of Zone 1.
Actually the wording is: switchgear, accessories incorporating swtches.......
As such, unswitched FCUs are allowed in zone 2.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. Sorry not got back till now.
Bathroom already tiled with floor about to be tiled once heated floor in. Already has cable in place under floor for bath and heated floor. Both start under landing floor and unconnected to ring as yet. Need to put cable in for towel rail still.

Bath panel acrylic and easily clips in and out.
Also note upstairs ring not currently RCD protected although could change MCB for RCBO.
Was going to put RCD FCU on landing for bath and FCU for heated floor (not too bad) then they decided on heated towel rail as well, so third FCU not so pretty. Now thinking bath and floor FCU's on landing wall and 'unswitched' FCU in bathroom by Towel rail as fixed outlet plate (1m from bath). ??
 
Yes but the existing ring circuit not RCD protected will be no worse for the addition as long as the addition of an electrical item in the bathroom is RCD protected.
 
Installing an RCD FCU would not provide RCD protection for the circuit, just part of the circuit.
BS7671 requires that the circuit be RCD protected, not just part of it.

Only the work YOU carry out has to comply with current regs so RCD FCU would be fine.

There is no requirement to bring wiring installed to an earlier edition of the regs up to current standards.

Bonding etc. should be checked of course. :smiley2:
 
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Thanks for all the advice guys. Sorry not got back till now.
Bathroom already tiled with floor about to be tiled once heated floor in. Already has cable in place under floor for bath and heated floor. Both start under landing floor and unconnected to ring as yet. Need to put cable in for towel rail still.

Bath panel acrylic and easily clips in and out.
Also note upstairs ring not currently RCD protected although could change MCB for RCBO.
Was going to put RCD FCU on landing for bath and FCU for heated floor (not too bad) then they decided on heated towel rail as well, so third FCU not so pretty. Now thinking bath and floor FCU's on landing wall and 'unswitched' FCU in bathroom by Towel rail as fixed outlet plate (1m from bath). ??

Think this is a good solution cosmetically. No probs with that. Can't you put an RCBO at the board? As all those spurs would need protection.
 
Totally off topic, but i installed my first socket in a bathroom today!!

:hurray:
 
Can't you put an RCBO at the board? As all those spurs would need protection.

Yep. Think I've decided to do that as the little extra cost then covers the whole circuit anyway but as you say in particular the new work in the bathroom. Will have unswitched fuse outlet by t/rail in bathroom and on landing will have bath switched FCU with light switch above and then Floor switched FCU with floor control above so pretty tidy and all safe. Thanks ALL
 
Only the work YOU carry out has to comply with current regs so RCD FCU would be fine.

There is no requirement to bring wiring installed to an earlier edition of the regs up to current standards.

Bonding etc. should be checked of course. :smiley2:
That is correct the work you carry out should comply with the current Regulations.
The current Regulations require all circuits of a location containing a bath or shower to be RCD protected.
Extending an existing circuit, and only protecting the extended part, would not meet the requirements of the current Regulations.
 
That is correct the work you carry out should comply with the current Regulations.
The current Regulations require all circuits of a location containing a bath or shower to be RCD protected.
Extending an existing circuit, and only protecting the extended part, would not meet the requirements of the current Regulations.

I understand and personally agree with your view,however,that view is not shared by the Esc, as you will be aware,or at least my reading of their advise suggests it is so

Just to make others aware,I have copied and pasted the guidance from them in the link below

This answer suggests only the extended
Q2
When an electrical appliance such as a boiler or electric towel rail is to be installed in a bathroom where there is no supplementary bonding, and the consumer unit has rewireable fuses and no RCD protection, how can the installer comply with the 17th Edition?


If an existing circuit of a location containing a bath or shower is extended, at least the extended part of the existing circuit must be provided with RCD protection.

this one can be seen as the whole circuit and not just the extended part
  • Q3. A socket-outlet is to be added to an existing circuit. The work is not being carried out in a special location and the existing circuit has no RCD protection. The new socket-outlet is to be flush mounted 150 mm horizontally from an existing socket-outlet, and connected with wiring concealed in the wall. What is reasonably expected for the installer to do to comply with the 17th Edition?
  • A socket-outlet that is added to an existing circuit will need to have RCD protection (except for a socket-outlet designated for a particular item of equipment, such as a freezer).
    In addition, if the wiring that is used to extend the existing circuit is concealed in the wall, then at least the extended part of the existing circuit will need to be suitably protected (by RCD or other means).

  • In the end it doesn't seem the sensible action to just Rcd protect a bit of a circuit
 
That's the problem with the NICEIC, which owns the ESC, they think that they make the Regulations.
In the ESC best practice guide, despite the fact that BS7671 requires all circuits of locations containing baths or showeres to have RCD protection.
There is no recommendation for a code where RCD protection is not provided.

Any work that is carried out, must meet the requirements of BS7671.
BS7671 requires that some socket-outlets and some cables concealed in walls should have RCD protection.
As such RCD protection must be provided (where required) only on the extended part of an existing circuit.
However BS7671 requires that all circuits of locations containing baths or showers be RCD protected.
According to Appendix 15, circuits start (and in the case of RFCs finish) at a DB.
As such the only way to comply with BS7671 when extending an existing circuit of a location containg a bath or shower, is to provide RCD protection for the circuit at the DB.
 

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