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Installing a fan for a bathroom the other day resulted in an interesting discussion with the client,who is a now frail but mentally intact long retired sparky. I had fitted an RCD FCU at the DB to the associated lighting circuit to cover the only bathroom circuit,as there were no RCDs present or supplementary bonding. Explaining to him about RCD's and bathrooms he questioned as to whether I had actually altered the bathroom circuit at all. The reason being that the fan was a roof space in line jobby,so only a vent on the ceiling,all the wiring was carried out from an existing JB in the roof space,so light and pullswitch not touched,and the 3 pole isolator was installed in the airing cupboard adjacent to but outside the bathroom. I had to concede he had a point....perhaps it could be argued that there was no need to install an RCD as no alterations or additions were actually carried out in the bathroom. Opinions welcome.
 
Some would argue that the wiring you did was outside the bathroom location. I would be equally pedantic and argue that the equipment you wired up had a part (duct and grille) that extended into the location, that involved it in the rules for the location.
I would also that all the wiring within the fabric of walls and ceilings that serve that location are part of, and therefore relevant to the rules surrounding the location.

I would have put the RCD on too, and I would look for excuses to apply the regs in this situation, not look for excuses not to.
 
....perhaps it could be argued that there was no need to install an RCD as no alterations or additions were actually carried out in the bathroom. Opinions welcome.

As ever an interesting interpretations of regs! My interpretation/opinion would be .......

You have altered a "circuit" which is also contained in a bathroom (albeit your element of work on the circuit could be argued as outside the actual bathroom). "Circuit" I interpret from the BGB as commencing from the same protective device, so includes everything from the C/B onwards.

Special locations (bathroom) require its "circuits" to be RCD protected, so if you are doing any work on that "circuit" from the C/B onwards it needs to meet current regs regardless of where the work is.

Hence you correctly fitted an RCD ..... though Im sure a counter arguement could be made!!
 
So if that's the case then if someone installs down lights in a bathroom then that mustn't be notifiable or require RCDs either.
After all, you're removing cables from the location and taking them to a JB in the loft. All new wiring is also outside of the bathroom so there you go.
Have to agree with what Andy said above.
 
Some would argue that the wiring you did was outside the bathroom location. I would be equally pedantic and argue that the equipment you wired up had a part (duct and grille) that extended into the location, that involved it in the rules for the location.
I would also that all the wiring within the fabric of walls and ceilings that serve that location are part of, and therefore relevant to the rules surrounding the location.

I would have put the RCD on too, and I would look for excuses to apply the regs in this situation, not look for excuses not to.

I would argue that since the ducting and the grille are (probably) made of plastic who gives a flying one?

BUT .. I'm just a poorly plumber. :(
 
I would argue that since the ducting and the grille are (probably) made of plastic who gves a flying one?

BUT .. I'm just a poorly plumber. :(

I'm not arguing that they are not made of plastic... just that they form a piece of equipment that has parts that are present within the special location, and whose wiring should therefore be subject to it's rules. It's a pedantic argument to counter any opposing pedantry that would argue an exemption for special location rules for a fan in a loft.
 
I'm not arguing that they are not made of plastic... just that they form a piece of equipment that has parts that are present within the special location, and whose wiring should therefore be subject to it's rules. It's a pedantic argument to counter any opposing pedantry that would argue an exemption for special location rules for a fan in a loft.

I love pedantic pedants.


EVERYONE should be a Pedantic Pedant .. Our country NEEDS Pedantic Pedants!!

Starting soon .. Geordie's Electrical Trainee course in Pendantic Pedantry. Get yer names doon on the list sharp as ye like and have yer cheque books at the ready!!
 
These cases of "interpretation" are exactly what regs updates need to clarify, not make even muddier...

Now where's that risk assessment document for the loft socket for the extra light!
 
Perhaps we should remember what the whole point of having an RCD device for in the first place. Now as far as this actual in-line fan is concerned, What is the point of protecting this fan and it's associated wiring that is located outside of any special location?? It's going to be impossible for anyone within the special location to come into contact with any live parts or any metalwork that may potentially become live in or under fault conditions.... The old spark has made a valid observation IMO. The only viable argument is with the downstream cabling probably not complying with the 50mm rule!!
 
I love pedantic pedants.


EVERYONE should be a Pedantic Pedant .. Our country NEEDS Pedantic Pedants!!

Starting soon .. Geordie's Electrical Trainee course in Pendantic Pedantry. Get yer names doon on the list sharp as ye like and have yer cheque books at the ready!!
If i join your Pedantic Scheme,can i have a van sticker to prove my worth? ...Also,if i only listen or inspect others pedantic witty outpourings,do i STILL need to be a scheme member? Yours,pegantic:bobby:
 
If i join your Pedantic Scheme,can i have a van sticker to prove my worth? ...Also,if i only listen or inspect others pedantic witty outpourings,do i STILL need to be a scheme member? Yours,pegantic:bobby:

The Van Sticker is included in the membership fee and yes you do need to be a member to listen / inspect etc. I'm a very poor and poorly Geordie who wants to buy a retirement cottage in Wales with Tidyboiler and I neeed to rip somebody off to be able to afford it!!
 
The Van Sticker is included in the membership fee and yes you do need to be a member to listen / inspect etc. I'm a very poor and poorly Geordie who wants to buy a retirement cottage in Wales with Tidyboiler and I neeed to rip somebody off to be able to afford it!!

Ah......... well you are with the right person here........... as you know I am a master rip off merchant......... I can rip off lead from church roofs, copper pipe, and anything else that's not bolted down............. we'll soon get our retirement cash! :ciappa:
 
Lol....sorry for the late entry but just got in from work. Thanks for all the replies,and opinions....seems that there is some sympathy for the old gits view! Just to clarify he was quite happy with the RCD but I think he made a valid point,which could be argued both ways if a lack of an RCD was ever picked up following the install.
I'm not sure I'd agree with Badged' interpretation that if any circuit includes a bathroom then that circuit should be RCD'd even if an alteration is carried out in another area,but I would agree with the view that we shouldnt be looking for reasons not to comply with the regs if a 'loophole' appears to exist!
 
I would agree with the view that we shouldnt be looking for reasons not to comply with the regs if a 'loophole' appears to exist!

also should not be looking to install unnecessary works to bump up the bill either. ( not suggesting that this is applicable to this thread ).
 
Me personally, given the situation described, taking particular note of the existing JB to tap in to not within the special location, I'd have wired up the fan as is.

If all was well with the installation, I wouldn't lose any sleep over not RCD protecting the circuit.

I'm with the old git :D

New surface mounted fan? RCD protection no question.
 

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