Bit of a moan about appliances

[Jay Sparks]

Hi Guys & Gals

Iv'e done a bit of work in a kitchen, extending sockets, adding FCUS etc. I went down there the other day to speak with the kitchen fitter and show him where I wanted him to bring my cable through the back of the units (cooker switch, FCU for built in appliances). Anyway, he was happy to do it but then mentioned that he might not be able to fit the fridge as the plug it comes with, will stick out to far and it won't go fully back. He then said the same thing about dishwasher! The only thing I could think of that made sense, was to change the 1G sockets to FCU's.

Anyway, my rant is basically at the appliance manufacturers. Why do they not leave enough space at the back of the appliance for it to be plugged it? How do they think it will work?

Has anyone else had this sort of problem? I haven't done a kitchen for a few years and never had a problem before.

Jay

 

[Pete999]

Yes I have, just move the socket to the adjacent space and run the flex to it when the appliance is fitted.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Yes I have, just move the socket to the adjacent space and run the flex to it when the appliance is fitted.

Unfortunately there is no space adjacent. They are all built in to the units and run from wall to wall. I wouldn't mind but the kitchen fitter said "don't worry, I'll just remove the socket and use Wago's to connect the fridge to the supply". Blinking cowboy!!

All the "integrated" sockets are run from FCU's that I have placed within the very limited cupboard space, so isolation is no problem.

It's just strange that they fit a plug that can't be used directly behind the appliance. Unless some regulation has warranted it?

Jay

 

[Octopus]

If its a built in kitchen, the fused plug shouldn't be behind the unit IMHO...

 

[Jay Sparks]

If its a built in kitchen, the fused plug shouldn't be behind the unit IMHO...

Why?

 

[telectrix]

if the plug/socket is the means of isolation, it should be accessible without having to wrench the appliance out.

 

[Jay Sparks]

The socket was fed from an FCU that is accessible. But thinking about it now, I could have used a cooker type connection unit behind the fridge instead. But like I said, its been a few years since I have done a kitchen. All appliances below worktop, built in or not are fed from an accessible FCU. From the drawings I was given, there didn't look like any room to put the socket, for it to be accessible and that was close enough to the appliance to use the supplied flex and plug.

You live and learn I suppose.

Jay

 

[stevethesparks]

Having just fitted my eldest daughters kitchen, running plumbing behind washing machines and dishwashers is the biggest nightmare, particularly the waste pipe. There is never any space allowed for this. In my own kitchen I brought the wall above and including the worktop out about 100mm to allow for additional room below, but this is not always an option.
As regards the outlets for these I have no problems in putting them in an adjacent cupboard for access or even under the kitchen sink.

 

[PEG]

Hi,so you have fitted the socket outlets,in the rear of the cupboards,and not in the wall behind the cupboard rear panel?

Dependant on carcase type,there is usually space left behind the cupboard,stepped out by the rear wings of the side pieces. This is to allow scribing the carcases to walls out of square or plumb.

You can fit a socket outlet,to an adjacent cupboard rear panel,stiffening provided,and retain access for isolation. Although there are a million examples out there,having the plug top,at the rear or any appliance,is not a good idea,

There should be no need to reset everything downstairs,just to safely remove one appliance.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Having just fitted my eldest daughters kitchen, running plumbing behind washing machines and dishwashers is the biggest nightmare, particularly the waste pipe. There is never any space allowed for this. In my own kitchen I brought the wall above and including the worktop out about 100mm to allow for additional room below, but this is not always an option.
As regards the outlets for these I have no problems in putting them in an adjacent cupboard for access or even under the kitchen sink.

I have used under the sink and an adjacent/above cupboard for some of the appliances, like the microwave above the oven and the washing machine at the side of the sink. In this case it's a very small kitchen and most of the space has been taken by appliances, so not a lot of cupboard space available.

When I asked the fitter to drill a hole in the cupboard above the microwave, for the flex to come through, he mentioned that the plug would have to stay on the microwave because if an engineer had to come to replace/repair the appliance, they weren't allowed to touch it if it didn't have original plug on. Now I know there are many different views on this and I personally don't have a problem cutting a molded plug off to feed the flex through a small hole, then fitting another but if the kitchen fitter wants to cut a massive hole in the unit, that's his call.

Jay

 

[Jay Sparks]

Hi,so you have fitted the socket outlets,in the rear of the cupboards,and not in the wall behind the cupboard rear panel?

Dependant on carcase type,there is usually space left behind the cupboard,stepped out by the rear wings of the side pieces. This is to allow scribing the carcases to walls out of square or plumb.

You can fit a socket outlet,to an adjacent cupboard rear panel,stiffening provided,and retain access for isolation. Although there are a million examples out there,having the plug top,at the rear or any appliance,is not a good idea,

There should be no need to reset everything downstairs,just to safely remove one appliance.

No, I have put three sockets below worktops height, behind the appliances. Each one is fed from accessible FCU either above worktop or in the very limited cupboard spaces to far away for the flex. Each appliance can be isolated separately for maintenance/repair.

My comment was that the kitchen fitter said the appliances he is fitting don't have enough space at the back for the plug they are supplied with. Apparently they go right back to the wall, leaving maybe an inch of space.

Jay

 

[David M]

Personally I would not install any connection point directly behind the appliance unless it was readily available to get to with maybe the odd exception.
For these reasons :-
1. The socket/plug can be easily damaged as the appliance is pushed into place
2. There generally is not enough room for the appliance to fit right back into position
3. The connection point/ plug is not easily available for service and maintenance
4. It makes testing more difficult and time consuming.
5. If the plug top is kept then the appliance has to be removed to swap the fuse
6. There is a chance, that leaking pipes behind the appliance could cause damage to the electrical connection.

 

[westward10]

Fit a FCU with bottom cord outlet. As for keeping the original plug from an appliance, disconnect at the appliance and refit instead

 

[streamer]

The problem with removing the plug from an appliance is that it will probably invalidate the warranty. I try to fit the socket in the unit next to the appliance where possible although this means cutting a hole big enough for a plug top to pass through in the back of the unit, and sometimes it isn't possible if there are drawers next to the appliance.

 

[telectrix]

replace socket with an unswitched FCU. job done.

 

[Jay Sparks]

replace socket with an unswitched FCU. job done.

That's what I told the fitter I would do but he then said if an engineer had to come out to replace or repair it, they wouldn't touch it if the plug had been cut off. Although he was all for removing the socket front and fitting it with Wagos!!

Jay

 

[David M]

That's what I told the fitter I would do but he then said if an engineer had to come out to replace or repair it, they wouldn't touch it if the plug had been cut off. Although he was all for removing the socket front and fitting it with Wagos!!

Jay

The warranty thing is an argument all on its own. I can't see why the warranty would be invalidated if a new plug was correctly installed. What happens if the moulded plug gets damaged at anytime? Is this covered by the warranty? and if so how would they go about repairing the problem?

 

[DPG]

The problem with removing the plug from an appliance is that it will probably invalidate the warranty. I try to fit the socket in the unit next to the appliance where possible although this means cutting a hole big enough for a plug top to pass through in the back of the unit, and sometimes it isn't possible if there are drawers next to the appliance.

Aaaaaaaaarggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[telectrix]

more aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhh.

 

[telectrix]

problem with cutting off plug and threading cable through small hole is not the warranty. it's appliance service engineer monkey incapable of removing a plug.