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Main bonding - Green and yellow conductors that connect metal pipes (gas, water or oil) from inside a building to the main earthing terminal of the electrical installation. Main bonding connections may also be made outside the building, for example where a semi-enclosed gas meter box is installed outside and it is not possible to install a bond to the gas installation pipework indoors.
So, where is that from?
 
Well as I said originally the question I was pondering was what did it mean ...at the point of entry into the building...? Is the point of entry when it gets inside or the point of entry where it starts to go inside. So if a person is at the front door they are ...at the point of entry... inside the front door they have entered the building so entry has been achieved. Ok maybe I think too much. You see in the olden days there were no gas meters outside in domestic. So it was all fairly clear, and quite common to bond water and gas under the floor boards. Perhaps not the brightest idea in retrospect but accepted practice. It was just that gas safe man has the idea bonding has to be on the meter outlet pipe and viewable I presume. But then what is he doing judging on such a matter???
 
Main bonding - Green and yellow conductors that connect metal pipes (gas, water or oil) from inside a building to the main earthing terminal of the electrical installation. Main bonding connections may also be made outside the building, for example where a semi-enclosed gas meter box is installed outside and it is not possible to install a bond to the gas installation pipework indoors.
It’s so obvious that you copied and pasted Buzz - or did you find you glasses!
 
Regs say point of entry, nothing about inside or out.
Well as I said originally the question I was pondering was what did it mean ...at the point of entry into the building...? Is the point of entry when it gets inside or the point of entry where it starts to go inside. So if a person is at the front door they are ...at the point of entry... inside the front door they have entered the building so entry has been achieved. Ok maybe I think too much. You see in the olden days there were no gas meters outside in domestic. So it was all fairly clear, and quite common to bond water and gas under the floor boards. Perhaps not the brightest idea in retrospect but accepted practice. It was just that gas safe man has the idea bonding has to be on the meter outlet pipe and viewable I presume. But then what is he doing judging on such a matter???
The thing is quite simple.
If you always place your main bond on the inside of the property it will always be acceptable and compliant with bs7671.
If you decide to place your main bond outside the property there are times that will not be acceptable.
On that basis just bond inside and you can't go wrong. What is to debate?
 
Just bond it! It really makes no difference whether inside or out as long as an appropriate clamp and common sense are used.
It makes a difference where the bond is if you are trying to do an R2 test and you have to go outside the property to get to the connection. Installing the cable outside is also more work for the electrician and additional cost for extra cable. Therefore your claim that it doesn't matter whether it's bonded inside or outside doesn't hold water. Inside is easier and cheaper.
 
How b l o o d y stupid ...

You would have hoped that the gas regs simply referred to a regulation in BS 7671

Then there would be confusion, no ambiguity,

Ah, utopia
 
Not to mention the gas regs state that the gas pipe must always be bonded, if you test and it's not extraneous then there's no need to bond it at all, same goes for plastic water incomers.
I bet the gas guys would have a fit if you explained that to them though.
Anyway, that document posted by Murdoch only says they need to notify in writing, doesn't say they should refuse to proceed.
 
It makes a difference where the bond is if you are trying to do an R2 test and you have to go outside the property to get to the connection. Installing the cable outside is also more work for the electrician and additional cost for extra cable. Therefore your claim that it doesn't matter whether it's bonded inside or outside doesn't hold water. Inside is easier and cheaper.
1. It's not an R2 test is it?
2. Unless my regs book is different from others it actually states-
544.1.2 - The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises, Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet or at the union point of entry to the building if the meter is external"
3. It doesn't as far as I can see mention, 'more work for the electrician' or 'additional cost of extra cable' or I don't think 'inside is easier and cheaper'
I rest my case.
 
if you put the bonding under the floor boards to the copper pipes there is more likely that the bonding clips might rust with moisture .

I disagree there Buzz. There are plenty of external meter cabinets I see with missing covers and are much more likely to 'feel' the elements. Also if you use the correct grade of 951 clamp there should be less of an issue still.

I have had this issue once where routing the 10mm would have been a pita to take it externally. I terminated it just inside at the point of entry into the building itself. Left a big label saying 'plumbers are t00ssers" to grab their attention and then another underneath saying that the bonding was upto scratch with BS7671 2015 and where the pipe was bonded.
 
Not to mention the gas regs state that the gas pipe must always be bonded, if you test and it's not extraneous then there's no need to bond it at all, same goes for plastic water incomers.
I bet the gas guys would have a fit if you explained that to them though.
Anyway, that document posted by Murdoch only says they need to notify in writing, doesn't say they should refuse to proceed.

Is it not the case that even if the incoming gas is fed in plastic, that the actual internal gas pipework being metallic does require bonding still. I seem to recall reading that in the regs approx 4 years or so ago. If I recall correctly it applied specifically to gas but not to all metallic water pipework (even when the incoming water was plastic too).
 
Is it not the case that even if the incoming gas is fed in plastic, that the actual internal gas pipework being metallic does require bonding still. I seem to recall reading that in the regs approx 4 years or so ago. If I recall correctly it applied specifically to gas but not to all metallic water pipework (even when the incoming water was plastic too).
The requirement is to bond extraneous conductive-parts.
Plastic is non-conductive, so doesn’t require bonding.
Metallic pipework inside the building is not extraneous, so also doesn’t require bonding.
When you look up the definition of extraneous conductive-part, it says something about not being a part of the electrical installation which may introduce a potential (might be introduce a difference in potential).
Determination of whether the pipework introduces a potential (or a difference in potential) would indicate whether it requires bonding.

I’m pretty certain this has been covered a number of times.

Use an IR tester to determine whether there is any continuity between the installation earth and the pipework and use a low ohm meter to determine whether any continuity found is reliable.

Below 0.05 ohms is considered reliably connected and doesn’t require bonding.

Anything between 0.05 ohms and 23 kohms would be considered as being in contact with earth, though there are different opinions regarding the higher end as to whether it would require bonding.

22k ohms, 1667 ohms or 667 ohms, all dependant on the resistance of an average human body (1 kohm) and the 50v considered as being safe.
 
Shirley the reason to bond as per reg 544.1.2 is that if some plumbing bod comes at a later date and re-routes the gas pipe (metal), the gas pipe is more likely to remain bonded, than if original pipe was bonded under the floorboards half a mile away. And don't say its down to the new plumber to make sure, 'cos it ruins my argument. So the nearer to where the gas pipe becomes metal after the meter, the better (if its extraneous of course).
 
1. It's not an R2 test is it?
2. Unless my regs book is different from others it actually states-
544.1.2 - The main equipotential bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises, Where there is an insulating section or insert at that point, or there is a meter, the connection shall be made to the consumer's hard metal pipework and before any branch pipework. Where practicable the connection shall be made within 600mm of the meter outlet or at the union point of entry to the building if the meter is external"
3. It doesn't as far as I can see mention, 'more work for the electrician' or 'additional cost of extra cable' or I don't think 'inside is easier and cheaper'
I rest my case.

Regarding points 1,2 and 3. (Which you have separated and quoted simultaneously so I will answer all 3 with a single reply .
1.
I never said it was an R2 test did i?
R2 was mentioned as it is going to be more practical and convenient for the verification of the main bond in the future,and when installing equipment you should do so with due consideration for the cost,maintenance and convenience of the client. Therefore bond it inside and yes it definitely does make a difference if it's in or out. Installation work is primarily for safety and convenience and you should bear this in mind at all times.
 
Regarding points 1,2 and 3. (Which you have separated and quoted simultaneously so I will answer all 3 with a single reply .
1.
I never said it was an R2 test did i?
R2 was mentioned as it is going to be more practical and convenient for the verification of the main bond in the future,and when installing equipment you should do so with due consideration for the cost,maintenance and convenience of the client. Therefore bond it inside and yes it definitely does make a difference if it's in or out. Installation work is primarily for safety and convenience and you should bear this in mind at all times.
What if the gas pipe is inaccessible for most part inside the building but readily accessible at point of entry outside but within the gas meter enclosure? I have come across this situation many times. For me the obvious and most convenient answer, in these situations, is to bond at external point of entry.
 
What if the gas pipe is inaccessible for most part inside the building but readily accessible at point of entry outside but within the gas meter enclosure? I have come across this situation many times. For me the obvious and most convenient answer, in these situations, is to bond at external point of entry.
then you bond to the pipe work out side has long you can get to it.
 

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