casting down-lights into concrete (new build)

[J.C.E]

Looking at a job tomorrow evening for a new 5 bed house +granny flat over a basement floor+ground.

In my initial phone call to the client- down-lights are wanted in the basement concrete ceiling

'which will need to fit cowlings we've already cast into concrete'

I am assuming they are not/don't want too drop the ceiling and have down-lights installed this way.

I have never been involved or even thought about down-light actually recessed into concrete!!

assuming 'cowlings' are maybe hoods that are pre installed before the concrete pour? -how is it wired? pre installed conduits?

any advise or past experience welcome
cheers

 

[Strima]

Have they specified what fittings are to be used in their 'cowlings'? Has conduit been run in etc?

 

[Octopus]

Suspended ceiling...........

 

[Risteard]

the definition of cowling - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/cowling?s=t

 

[ipf]

the definition of cowling - http://www.dictionary.com/browse/cowling?s=t

Always thought they were little cows...

 

[Adam W]

Presumably they're similar to ground lights which fit into a kind of 'sleeve' (or "cowling") which is set into the ground, or in this case the ceiling.
As everyone else has said this raises an interesting question as to how you're going to run the cables - ordinarily, as Murdoch says you'd either board it out, or surface mount it in conduit if you're going for or don't mind a more industrial look, but in that case you'd probably surface mount the fittings as well.
If there's no ducting been set into the concrete you might face a challenge.

 

[PEG]

Just done some in a concrete drive,but no structural issues,such as in a floor.

Would be interested to know the construction method/spec for that job

Just an addition to this theme,i was recently involved with the building of muck clamp,which is constructed using pre-formed concrete panels,mounted vertically.

These are 15' and 30' long,and weigh 2 and 5 tonnes a piece.
They have supplied lifting loops,which screw in to cast threaded sockets,on the top edge,but a lad on the job,said he usually bored two 4" holes,and poked the stacker truck forks,through these

A call to the manufacturer,revealed it is prohibited to drill a hole for a rawl-plug or else they are deemed scrap.

 

[Pete E]

As everyone else has said this raises an interesting question as to how you're going to run the cables - ordinarily, as Murdoch says you'd either board it out, or surface mount it in conduit if you're going for or don't mind a more industrial look, but in that case you'd probably surface mount the fittings as well.
If there's no ducting been set into the concrete you might face a challenge.

While on holiday in Greece a few years ago, the hotel was being extended upwards by having an additional floor added.

It appeared that the cable for the electrics had been run within the shuttering and the concrete cast over them such the cabling ended up being encased in concrete.

I have no idea if this is a common approach over there or just down to a lack of standards in that particular case...

 

[Adam W]

While on holiday in Greece a few years ago, the hotel was being extended upwards by having an additional floor added.

It appeared that the cable for the electrics had been run within the shuttering and the concrete cast over them such the cabling ended up being encased in concrete.

I have no idea if this is a common approach over there or just down to a lack of standards in that particular case...

That kind of approach might fly in the rest of Europe but it doesn't comply with British Standards - the installation has to be rewireable without demolishing the building. I would have thought that was common sense.

 

[Pete E]

That kind of approach might fly in the rest of Europe but it doesn't comply with British Standards - the installation has to be rewireable without demolishing the building. I would have thought that was common sense.

I wasn't for one minute suggesting it would comply with our standards simply making an observation about what I'd seen to get around the issue of running cables in a cast concrete building..

 

[Adam W]

I wasn't for one minute suggesting it would comply with our standards simply making an observation about what I'd seen to get around the issue of running cables in a cast concrete building..

I wasn't suggesting you were, I was just flaunting the fact that our (electrical) standards are more stringent than the rest of Europe's - it's much more important to have safe and usable electrics than to have all your vegetables a specific shape.

 

[J.C.E]

Have they specified what fittings are to be used in their 'cowlings'? Has conduit been run in etc?

they intitial spec was RocknRoll range from mr resistor
Rock 'n' Roll 240V 50W White | Mr Resistor Lighting - http://www.mr-resistor.co.uk/item.aspx?i=8385
- I explained these are not fire rated- and at £18 i could get fire rated LED fittings for nearly half that price

 

[J.C.E]

Suspended ceiling...........

agreed- but before looking at site today- guessing there is a reason they don't want to- i have a feeling they want exposed polished concrete ceilings/floors

 

[Octopus]

agreed- but before looking at site today- guessing there is a reason they don't want to- i have a feeling they want exposed polished concrete ceilings/floors

and surface trunking for the cables ...........................?

 

[HandySparks]

they intitial spec was RocknRoll range from mr resistor
Rock 'n' Roll 240V 50W White | Mr Resistor Lighting - http://www.mr-resistor.co.uk/item.aspx?i=8385
- I explained these are not fire rated- and at £18 i could get fire rated LED fittings for nearly half that price

Why would you want fire rated fittings if they're housed in recesses in the concrete ceiling? (I assume that the holes for the fittings don't go all the way through the thickness of the concrete.)

 

[Octopus]

Why would you want fire rated fittings if they're housed in recesses in the concrete ceiling? (I assume that the holes for the fittings don't go all the way through the thickness of the concrete.)

If its a single property, why do you need fire rated downlights at all?

 

[J.C.E]

and surface trunking for the cables ...........................?

well if they

Took a look today so the main contractor has put ‘pots’ in the concrete of the ground floor (basement ceiling) where lights are positioned

And he wants it wired from above

Then concrete screed will then go on top

He wants the wiring laying on the ground floor (for points below) to be protected in copex/mini trunking to prevent damage in the building stage- but doesnt have the budget for a more robust install like galv conduit.

I explained that this would not be rewireable in 50 years time without any demo work!! Which he understands and will be making the client aware (who is actually a tv show architech!!)

Not sure if i want to carry this out or not?

Thoughts...

 

[J.C.E]

and surface trunking for the cables ...........................?

well if they

Took a look today so the main contractor has put ‘pots’ in the concrete of the ground floor (basement ceiling) where lights are positioned

And he wants it wired from above

Then concrete screed will then go on top

He wants the wiring laying on the ground floor (for points below) to be protected in copex/mini trunking to prevent damage in the building stage- but doesnt have the budget for a more robust install like galv conduit.

I explained that this would not be rewireable in 50 years time without any demo work!! Which he understands and will be making the client aware (who is actually a tv show architech!!)

Not sure if i want to carry this out or not?

Thoughts...

 

[Octopus]

Thoughts...

Why haven't they got a spark onsite from the start

Alarm bells

 

[Strima]

TBH I’d be walking away. You should have been involved since the design stage.