"certificate" required for house sale

[GBDamo]

Quick question,

A friend is selling a house and has been asked to provide a "certificate" for the electrics. I have already asked her to get back in touch with the estate agent and ask exactly what "certificate" they want but I'm guessing an ECIR.

Now she bought the house in 2013 and has had no work done on it but if work had been done between Part P coming in in 2005 and 2013 where does liability for this lie?

My worry is there is some additions which she is going to have to get an EICR for and notify the council.

Whilst I hold the qualifications and have the kit to do this I am not registered under a personal CPS scheme and frankly don't have the experience to do a full EICR and therefore don't want to.

Guess I'm just looking for some advice to pass on and in doing so feign expertise and gain brownie points. :-0

 

[Pete999]

Quick question,

A friend is selling a house and has been asked to provide a "certificate" for the electrics. I have already asked her to get back in touch with the estate agent and ask exactly what "certificate" they want but I'm guessing an ECIR.

Now she bought the house in 2013 and has had no work done on it but if work had been done between Part P coming in in 2005 and 2013 where does liability for this lie?

My worry is there is some additions which she is going to have to get an EICR for and notify the council.

Whilst I hold the qualifications and have the kit to do this I am not registered under a personal CPS scheme and frankly don't have the experience to do a full EICR and therefore don't want to.

Guess I'm just looking for some advice to pass on and in doing so feign expertise and gain brownie points. :-0

You have Test and Inspect quals, I see no problem in you doing an EICR

 

[SparkyChick]

If notifiable work has been done in the property she will need to seek a regularisation certificate from the local authority building control department. I've done this for a client and a full EICR should suffice.

As @Pete999 has said, you have test and inspect qualifications which should be sufficient to carry out an EICR. The one thing that may be an issue is suitable insurance. For EICRs I have to have professional indemnity insurance, but this is mandated by my scheme.

The best advice, is to give the LABC a call, explain the situation to them (I've done this a few times without giving any of the fine detail away and they have been most helpful) and ask them what should be done as they are the ones you will need to satisfy if notifiable work has been carried out and not notified.

If no notifiable work has been done, then you should be able to do an EICR, but you should get some advice about the insurance situation.

 

[GBDamo]

You have Test and Inspect quals, I see no problem in you doing an EICR

All I do is the occasional EIC under works NICEIC scheme. Rummaging round an old installation and assigning C1,C2 and C3s is out of my comfort zone.

Also is it true that you have to be a member of a AC scheme to issue an EICR but there is no notification involved.

Just reaad this and it seems Mmmmm......

A electrical inspection reports will:

• Reveal if any of your electrical circuits or equipment are overloaded.
• Find any potential electric shock risks and fire hazards.
• Identify any defective electrical work.
• Highlight any lack of earthing or bonding.

Tests are also carried out on wiring and fixed electrical equipment to check that they are safe. A schedule of circuits is also provided, which is invaluable for a property.

Who should carry out the electrical certificate inspection and what happens?

Electrical inspection reports or certificates should be carried out only by an accredited, competent persons, such as a registered electrician. They will check the condition of the electrics against the UK standard for the safety of electrical installations, BS 7671 – Requirements for Electrical Installations (IEE Wiring Regulations).

All our engineers are either NICEIC (external link), ELECSA (external link), or NAPIT (external link) registered and are fully qualified to carry out electrical certificates or domestic electrical installation condition reports.

MAKE SURE YOU DON’T WASTE YOUR MONEY!

Most Local Councils, Housing Associations and Estate Agents or Managing Agents will only accept Electrical Certificates that have been signed off by a fully qualified and registered engineer. Also if something should happen such as an electrical shock your insurance may not cover you without a valid electrical certificate. Take the following steps so you know you are not wasting your money or taking a risk:

• Check if the electrician you are using is Registered with a regulatory body such as NICEIC, ELECSA or NAPIT;
• Only Approved Contractors can issue electrical certificates (EICRS) NOT Domestic Installers – ensure the electrician is registered with the appropriate scheme;
• Make sure they are Fully Insured with a registered body – only registered electricians can obtain such insurance;
• Ensure sure they Don’t Issue you off the shelve Green Papers – anyone can use them!

Our engineers will inspect and take into account all the relevant circumstances and checks on:

• The adequacy of earthing and bonding.
• The suitability of the switchgear and controlgear. For example, an old fusebox with a wooden back, cast-iron switches, or a mixture of both will need replacing.
• The serviceability of switches, sockets and lighting fittings. Items that may need replacing include: older round-pin sockets, round light switches, cables with fabric coating hanging from ceiling roses to light fittings, black switches and sockets mounted in skirting boards.
• The type of wiring system and its condition. For example, cables coated in black rubber were phased out in the 1960s. Likewise cables coated in lead or fabric are even older and may well need replacing (modern cables use longer-lasting pvc insulation).
• Making sure you have a fusebox with a suitable residual current device (RCD).
• The presence of adequate identification and notices.
• The extent of any wear and tear, damage or other deterioration.
• Any changes in the use of the premises that have led to, or may lead to, unsafe conditions.

Our engineer will then issue you with an Electrical Installation Condition Report detailing any observed damage, deterioration, defects, dangerous conditions and any non-compliances with the current standard.

If any dangerous or potentially dangerous condition or conditions are found, the overall condition of the electrical installation will be declared to be ‘unsatisfactory’, meaning that remedial action is required without delay to remove the risks to those in the premises.

 

[GBDamo]

If notifiable work has been done in the property she will need to seek a regularisation certificate from the local authority building control department. I've done this for a client and a full EICR should suffice.

As @Pete999 has said, you have test and inspect qualifications which should be sufficient to carry out an EICR. The one thing that may be an issue is suitable insurance. For EICRs I have to have professional indemnity insurance, but this is mandated by my scheme.

The best advice, is to give the LABC a call, explain the situation to them (I've done this a few times without giving any of the fine detail away and they have been most helpful) and ask them what should be done as they are the ones you will need to satisfy if notifiable work has been carried out and not notified.

If no notifiable work has been done, then you should be able to do an EICR, but you should get some advice about the insurance situation.

 

[GBDamo]

I might pop round and see if any notifiable work has been done, at least clear that one up.

I think with the age of the property a lack of blue/brown cables would be a good indicator.

Any other pointers

 

[The Ghost]

If she is doing additional work she will need an EIC from whoever installs whatever. Work previous to the occupation of the current owner should have been dealt with in "enquiries" made by her solicitor. No doubt she has any relevant certificates already. In any event I would not provide certification for a previous owners work commissioned by them I would refer them to the previous owner if they are that interested.

 

[GBDamo]

If she is doing additional work she will need an EIC from whoever installs whatever

True but doing additions on a house you've sold would be silly though.

 

[Toneyz]

The previous owner/person who done the work. You do not need to belong to one of the schemes to undertake a EICR. What additions have taken place ?

I might pop round and see if any notifiable work has been done, at least clear that one up.

I think with the age of the property a lack of blue/brown cables would be a good indicator.

Any other pointers

The new colours came in before the introduction of part P.

 

[GBDamo]

The previous owner/person who done the work. You do not need to belong to one of the

The new colours came in before the introduction of part P.

I though Part P was 2005 and harmonization 2007 or is this the point when you HAD to start using Brown/Blue but in practice people were using them earlier?

 

[The Ghost]

True but doing additions on a house you've sold would be silly though.

I am misunderstanding something obviously in you original post you said selling and in your comment you indicate sold. It seems to me if the owner is being asked for certs these are pre-contract enquiries and therefore a long way if ever off of being sold. As these enquiries may lead to a sale if all parties are satisfied. Until exchange of contracts there is no sale per se.

 

[Andy78]

31 March 2004 - 31 March 2006 was the transitional period for the harmonised colour change.
1 Jan 2005 was the implementation date for part P.

Not that any of that matters in the absence of prior paperwork apart from the estimated age of alterations noted on the EICR, which is all that needs to be carried out.

 

[Octopus]

If the seller needs an EICR then crack on and do one.

You are there to report on the condition, not speculate if part P work had been done.

No scheme membership required.

Simples

 

[The Ghost]

I am not sure if anyone has bought a house on here. However there is no right for the buyer to ask for an EICR. If the purchaser requires an EICR they would pay for that as additional to their survey pre-purchase. There is absolutely no obligation on the part of the vendor to provide an EICR.

 

[Midwest]

Only unless it makes the deal go through though

 

[Rpa07]

They'd look at it as a biased report though, if done by the vendor and that is why we see so many being requested by the purchaser.
Feels a little awkward when doing them as technically you should not tell them anything about the condition as it is purchased and requested by another party but a little word in the 'shell like' gives them a heads up! So sue me, them, you - whatever!

 

[NDG Elecs]

I had a customer who worked for the mortgage company with whom he was getting his mortgage through. His sparky mate did an EICR, but they would not accept it due to him not being registered with any scheme. To be honest I looked through it and it was a right pile of carp, but that's irrelevant. Anyway, they accepted my EICR no problem, simply because it had the NAPIT logo etc on it. It may not be right etc etc but that's the way of the world sometimes. And plus I got the remedials so I'm not moaning!

To be honest, between the estate agents/solicitors/lenders there is a complete lack of understanding of what is wanted and/or required. Generally they just want a bit of paper saying all is good..

 

[davesparks]

You have Test and Inspect quals, I see no problem in you doing an EICR

He's already said he feels he doesn't have the experience to carry out an eicr, which is exactly the thing that many people coming on here asking for help with eicrs get told.
Yet now you're advising that just having the qualifications is enough and effectively ignoring his lack of experience?

 

[davesparks]

If

As @Pete999 has said, you have test and inspect qualifications which should be sufficient to carry out an EICR. The one thing that may be an issue is suitable insurance. For EICRs I have to have professional indemnity insurance, but this is mandated by my scheme.

.

No, just having the qualifications is not sufficient to carry out an eicr, competence and experience are also required. This is even specified in the regulations.

 

[FatAlan]

Like HIPs,a huge waste of money. Would you rely on any report commissioned by a vendor. If you want things checked out you commission the survey and you pay a solicitor to represent you at your expense.