companys refusing to pay CIS?

[einstein]

either umbrella or limited company?

Anyone know why?

 

[Pete999]

either umbrella or limited company?

Anyone know why?

No

 

[LankyWill]

Umbrella companies are for people who don’t have a UTR code and aren’t working self employed.

If you want to get paid CIS you need a UTR code and have to prove that you are working independently under no supervision. They usually ask you a few questions to suss you out over the phone.

You don’t have to be limited to get CIS, I went as a sole trader as it’s more costly going limited and only worth it if you’re earning £45k plus and have an accountant.

 

[einstein]

No

LOL i just want paying

Umbrella companies are for people who don’t have a UTR code and aren’t working self employed.

If you want to get paid CIS you need a UTR code and have to prove that you are working independently under no supervision. They usually ask you a few questions to suss you out over the phone.

You don’t have to be limited to get CIS, I went as a sole trader as it’s more costly going limited and only worth it if you’re earning £45k plus and have an accountant.

I agree, however a good percentage of agencys are asking me for either umbrella or limited company payment method

I cant understand the difference between limited or CIS to the company/agency ???

 

[LankyWill]

CIS means they take 20% at source and give it to the tax man ready for next years tax return.

The agency should be able to better explain this to you and help you make an informed decision.

 

[einstein]

CIS means they take 20% at source and give it to the tax man ready for next years tax return.

The agency should be able to better explain this to you and help you make an informed decision.

I know this just why are agencys saying no CIS ???

 

[telectrix]

CIS means they take 20% at source and give it to the tax man ready for next years tax return.

The agency should be able to better explain this to you and help you make an informed decision.

you avinn a giraffe? all agencies want to do is make the max. profit for them and screw workers out of as much of their earnings as they can.

 

[LankyWill]

Switch agency then or demand CIS, I got CIS through an agency I worked for last summer.

 

[einstein]

Switch agency then or demand CIS, I got CIS through an agency I worked for last summer.

some agencys do pay it

 

[Adam W]

There are certain rules surrounding 'self-employment' such as being able to send a substitute in your place and having a certain number of different sources of income, so it would appear (and some agencies will tell you) that you're "not allowed" to do agency work under the CIS scheme.
The cynic in me says is more like because the payment companies can make more out of you if you're paid under the umbrella scheme, and as such they offer the agencies "drinks" to "encourage" workers to get paid under umbrella via a certain company.

As mentioned there are still some agencies who will pay via CIS, even some who will let you choose which payment company you use, so I find it hard to believe that the others can't do it even if they tried, more like they don't want to.

 

[Rpa07]

No one else pays their tax weekly just construction so if they are not paying it to HMRC for you but giving it to you instead then put a bit of it away for end of year and keep your receipts.

 

[HandySparks]

No

I've got no idea either!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A few years back, the Inland Revenue wrote to the Agencies in regards to false self employment.
Basically they told the Agencies that if it turned out they were paying workers a self employed when they should be treated as employed, the Agencies would have to pay any tax and NI owed.
Most of the Agencies then decided everyone would be PAYE or Ltd. they didn’t want to risk being caught out.
Some Agencies continued to pay CIS, and those are the only ones I will work for.
I did get caught out at the start, I started work for an Agency just before the new tax year, as far as I was concerned being paid CIS. However when I got paid I had been charged tax, NI and employer’s NI contribution.
I refused to sign the new contract the Pay Roll company wanted me to sign. The existing contract said I would be paid CIS.
Eventually I left to work for an Agency which would pay CIS.
At the end of the Tax year I just declared the deductions made as CIS tax paid.
The Pay Roll company told me it was up to the Agency to decide whether I was PAYE or CIS. Strange as I was the one paying the Pay Roll company a fee for them to pay me, not the Agency.
I asked who was employing me, apparently no one.
I never agreed with anyone to be paid PAYE and strangely, I never received a P45 or P60 detailing any of the tax or NI deductions.

 

[Joshua]

They're all worried about being caught by IR35 and getting fined by HMRC.

They don't mind paying you under your own LTD company because all the blame will be on you as HMRC make it the companies responsibility to decide whether a worker falls within IR35.

As you're effectively hiring yourself through your own LTD company then it becomes your responsibility because on paper the agency are sub contracting to your LTD company and not you.

It's all another tax dodge and HMRC have realised that more than half the countries construction industry are self employed.
It won't be long until we're all forced into PAYE through umbrella companies. HMRC won't care as long as they're getting their money.

 

[grantr37]

LOL i just want paying



I agree, however a good percentage of agencys are asking me for either umbrella or limited company payment method

I cant understand the difference between limited or CIS to the company/agency ???

First of all most umbrella companies are owned by job agencies and secondly it takes away the need to set aside holiday pay, pay your employers national insurance (I went with an umbrella company to get onto a site which was a new build super hospital and had over 900 trades people on site years ago) and thi means you end up paying both sides of the national insurance (cost me an extra £90 a week) also you used to sometimes get told you would wait 3 weeks for your wages unless you paid them £10 to get "same day value" which is a term banks use for same day clearing of a cheque or electronic funds transfer (the fee the last time I checked from the bank is £0.70p a person for same day wage pay in)

Umbrella also means no employment rights although this is in the process of changing due to new laws to protect workers and take away abuse loopholes.

I found myself in a situation with an umbrella company where they took my tax and NI contributions but did not pass them on to the tax, this was a couple of years before everybody started doing payslips by email and I had kept them all in paper by mail form, so sent colour copies of all of them with a letter to hmrc, from owing a shortfall of £900 I went to having overpaid by £500 and got a cheque in the post, these days a lot of places want to email you a link to read your payslip online, now we all know what has happened already, so I would advise anyone getting payslips by email or emailed website link to save them as a pdf and print and keep them as well because if the umbrella company or agency closes for any reason, you will almost certainly lose access to things sent or stored online, even pdfs emailed to you can have a "call home" function or an expiry date coded into them and you can lose access, for now making another pdf or a screen grab of the wage slip and printing a copy for the file box is a good idea...

 

[grantr37]

A few years back, the Inland Revenue wrote to the Agencies in regards to false self employment.
Basically they told the Agencies that if it turned out they were paying workers a self employed when they should be treated as employed, the Agencies would have to pay any tax and NI owed.
Most of the Agencies then decided everyone would be PAYE or Ltd. they didn’t want to risk being caught out.
Some Agencies continued to pay CIS, and those are the only ones I will work for.
I did get caught out at the start, I started work for an Agency just before the new tax year, as far as I was concerned being paid CIS. However when I got paid I had been charged tax, NI and employer’s NI contribution.
I refused to sign the new contract the Pay Roll company wanted me to sign. The existing contract said I would be paid CIS.
Eventually I left to work for an Agency which would pay CIS.
At the end of the Tax year I just declared the deductions made as CIS tax paid.
The Pay Roll company told me it was up to the Agency to decide whether I was PAYE or CIS. Strange as I was the one paying the Pay Roll company a fee for them to pay me, not the Agency.
I asked who was employing me, apparently no one.
I never agreed with anyone to be paid PAYE and strangely, I never received a P45 or P60 detailing any of the tax or NI deductions.

Check that they actually passed on your tax and double dose national insurance or you might end up with a demand letter from the tax, I hope you kept the wage slips as if they didn't pass on the money and the tax office come asking you'll be knackered, if you can prove tax was taken and not passed on, they are quite good at closing the case and you may well even get a tax refund as you were proven not to be at fault.

 

[Adam W]

I've got no idea either!

I agree.

 

[uksrevivor]

All this umbrella company crap needs scrapping. employment agencies offer a rate on an hourly basis and then you find out that you have to pay the umbrella company to process your wages which is about £20 per week, this over a 40 hour week drops your rate by 50p an hour, you then have to pay employers NI contributions as well as your own NI, and if you want holiday pay you pay for it at about 12% of your weekly income. The hourly rate that agencies pay is not the actual rate you will finally get payed. Total rip off at our expense I hope it gets scrapped sooner rather than later as it is just not right.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There are four methods agencies pay their workers.
CIS. Payment through a Pay roll company, their fee (£15 - £25) is deducted, followed by the 20% CIS tax. Your expenses are then claimed at the end of the year through Self Assessment.
Ltd Co. Payment shouldbe direct from the Agency to your Ltd Co. with the 20% CIS tax deducted, though some Agencies pay through a Pay roll company which again deduct their fee followed by the 20% CIS tax. How you pay yourself from the Ltd Co. is then up to you.
Umbrella. Payment through a Pay roll company, their fee deducted followed by holiday pay, Employer’s NI and then your NI and PAYE tax ( not sure of the exact order of deductions). Most will allow you to claim weekly expenses before deducting tax and NI, though what and how much they will allow varies. Accumulated holiday pay is claimed as and when or when your employment ceases.
PAYE. Agencies pay you direct and deduct holiday pay, PAYE tax and NI. Your expenses are claimed at the end of the year through Self Assessment. Accumulated holiday pay is claimed as and when, or when your employment ceases.

 

[elsparko]

All this umbrella company crap needs scrapping. employment agencies offer a rate on an hourly basis and then you find out that you have to pay the umbrella company to process your wages which is about £20 per week, this over a 40 hour week drops your rate by 50p an hour, you then have to pay employers NI contributions as well as your own NI, and if you want holiday pay you pay for it at about 12% of your weekly income. The hourly rate that agencies pay is not the actual rate you will finally get payed. Total rip off at our expense I hope it gets scrapped sooner rather than later as it is just not right.

depends which agency, last big contract i was on was 22.50 an hour for agency sparkies, sjib rates for boys on the books