Discuss Confused which one? ATL OLCI which code for city & guilds? in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Have looked at ATL, but some seem quite negative towards them so have decided to go with OCLI

Thing is I am reading lots of different codes from different dated post and just want to make sure I am about to head down the right route. Can not get this wrong as I am retraining as I am fed up with teaching and all the unwanted stress of it... any way.

OLCI-Course offered is:
Become a fully qualified electrician
City & Guilds 2357 Level 3 Diploma in Installing Electrotechnical Systems and Equipment (Buildings, Structures and the Environment) incorporating 2365 Level 2 and Level 3 Diplomas in Electrotechnical Installations (Buildings and Structures)

http://www.olci.info/electrical-training-courses.html

This is going to be a big investment for me and just need to make sure this will give me everything that I need to be able to install, test and pass my own work in a domestic, industrial or commercial environment. I will be self employed, really looking forward to a career change and just don't want to end up at the end with a mickey mouse qualification or one that only allows me to do part of what i want to do.

Any help appreciated, Don.

 
this will answer your question to be a fully qualified electrician you need to be in the electrical trade to do a nvq lvl 3, nvq lvl 3 mean gold card electrician,
 
Basically bic the route your going is frowned upon the majority of us have done apprenticeships.

I'm not one to judge but I've done a four year apprenticeship and I'm struggling for work.

Do you know how tough this game is at the moment? Some of the best sparks out there are short of work. I'm sure they will happily explain. If you have a well paid job dont change. That's my advice anyway
 
Thanks for the reply robbalaar86. Certainly not aware of the lack of work, not what the course providers would lead you to believe! but that's why I'm on here to find this info out. Not a complete novice to sparky work, (haven't always been a teacher).
 
I don't wish to sound rude, but I don't understand the answer. I this the right route or not? yes, no.

Many on here frown upon the City & Guilds Courses but if you want to start as a self employed Domestic Installer then go ahead.

You can get on the job (domestic) experience and then enhance your skills at a later date and possibly study for NVQ Level 3 if you want to work for the major companies and work onsite.

Like in any aspects of life if you put in you'll get out.

Check out New Career Skills website,they also help you get a work experience placement with a Qualified Spark and give you Post Course support aswell.

Hope this helps
 
Confused which one? ATL OLCI which code for city & guilds?

At £12 per hour I wouldn't bother sparking. Waitrose pay £10 an hour stacking shelves
 
Thank you for the positive reply cotty. Going down the self employed route as I have been before a few years ago and certainly aware its not going to be easy or guaranteed to get any work. If there is one thing I do its work hard and know my stuff.
 
My advice, try NCS or Tradeskills4u, from what I gather they have a far better support network in place and good job options as well. OLCI has a few issues with communication and the support system is poor. One of the guys I know on the course tried for 3 days to contact their call centre before he got through. No good if your in a hurry.

i understand people frown upon this route but reality paints a painful picture. If people like us who are motivated and want to be involved in the industry cannot get on the college courses or into apprenticeships, we seek alternative options I.e. the open learning route.....what other options are there? We understand the industry is struggling so as usual it's everyone for themselves, we have to put bread on the table as well.

there are thousands of people out there who have done apprenticeships and botched up jobs, there are thousands who went into open learning and botched up jobs. It's all about individual attitude and application, if the individual studies, understands and applies their knowledge safely to their craft, they will do well.

one thing to remember when going down the open learning route. YOU do all the theory on your own, you WON'T be taught to become an electrician, you have to learn yourself with minimum guidance. Remember when your training you can make mistakes but when your out there working for real, you MUST get it right first time all the time.

i hope you find the right path and gain every success.
 
£6000 is a lot of money they charge, there is cheaper and better ways to get qualified mate,do 2365 level 2 and 3 then do the nvq 3 on site then am2 be cheaper, and if go college you will learn more too
 
Thank you Drexyn, my feelings also its not about the route its about getting to the end and having the right work ethic.
Thank you terry1969. Have looked and researched into my alternatives, but for me this is the best route as I can fit the training in and around my current job. I appreciate your response.
 
Bic it's nothing personal mate but how would you feel if you had done an apprenticeship in something you like put all the effort In to learn the game (I'm still learning) on rubbish wages just to be under cut by the intensive courses?

It has made a mockery of the apprenticeship route. I have no problem with the correct routes but I feel personally ( others can disagree) these wonder courses are not half as valuable as being on site getting a -------ing for doing something wrong and being made to stay til you have sorted it. That is how it should be done.
 
Hey Rob, I know people in your situation have issues surrounding the open learning route. Take a step back for a moment and put yourself in our shoes. We are mature adults looking to find a way into the industry, we are individuals who want to learn and want to work in a safe manner and see the jobs completed correctly, the problem we have is that the avenues for apprenticeships for our age groups i.e. over 24's, is very small.

Believe me, if i could get an apprenticeship now i would take the opprtunity to go for it. The reality is sadly different, there's not enough funding for adults over 24 to justify given them apprenticeships, so employers will deliberately target younger learners for the obvious reasons. i.e cheap labour and government funding.

There is no mockery of the apprenticeship route at all, infact it is a great learning platform, the real mockery is the lack of funding for the over 24's bracket. The benefit of being on site and learning and also making mistakes but having supervision to back you up is brilliant. For us over 24's, our only benefit is that we must work harder, study harder, understand everything clearly and apply everything safely. There are right ways and wrong ways, my point being that if there was a level playing field for all age groups, it could change the industry for the better quite considerably i believe.

Now i'm going to put myself in your shoes, if i had completed 4 years of an apprenticeship, i would be confident in my abilities to complete any task in front of me because i will have received the relevant training and experience to back that up. I would also feel confident in applying my knowledge in such a way that i would be considering an apprentice to work with me after about 3 years working on my own, suffice to say i would have applied and expected to have passed my approved electrician status by then. Now comes the crunch time, i have 2 applicants, ones a 19 y/o and the other is 34 doing open learning.....i know the older guy gains me none or relatively little funding so he will cost me considerably more to sustain in my business model, however the younger guy gives me the full funding package and for the first 2 years i can have him on apprentice rates, therfore providing considerable savings to my business model.

It's not a mockery of anything really is it? These are facts and reflect the reality of everyones situation whether it is as the employer or as the trainee.

Were not stupid people and just because we can't get an apprenticeship that doesn't make us the enemy, so to speak. We want to come into the industry to learn and apply the knowledge we gain from the various work options we can get, we also bring different types of experiences that can be highly beneficial to the electrical industry, i have management skills as well as training and development also sales experience and customer service, is that not beneficial as time moves on?

The people out there who are undercutting you might be learners in the trade and offer a discount because they will naturally be slower at completing the job than someone with your skill setting, who could probably complete the same job in half the time. That may sound harsh to you or another qualified spark, but on the other side it makes good business sense when starting out as it could imply trust with the customer and provide good repeat business for the new spark.

I will agree with you that some of the open learning courses aren't particularly up to scratch in some respects when it comes to the practical side, however the theory is just as difficult to master wherever your learning because that all falls down to the individual. I would take all the time i could get on a site to learn the trade, yes it's a short cut in some peoples eyes, how else can we do it without funding though.

These are my views and i have tried to be fair and just with my comments, i by no means wish to discredit you or anyone else regarding the electrical trade and by posting i hope you can reason as to the challenges that we all face together in a difficult trading environment.
 
Just a couple of things from my perspective.

If you can be a sparks in 5 weeks why are young people doing apprenticeships for 4 years on a poor wage?
I'm still learning now and I've got different strings to my bow. I don't believe you can call yourself a spark in 5 weeks.

You say that it's hard times in the industry and it is. So while the time served are struggling to make a decent wage it's all going ---- up. The 5 week wonders are ruining the wage. Two years ago I was working on a new build hospital earning 750 a week as a mate. Now sparks are struggling to make that.

I appreciate everyone wants to make a living but I think if you have no experience you should have to do an apprenticeship. If there are none about surely that suggests there aren't enough jobs to go around before you even start?

I'm not having ago at anyone it's just my thoughts on the matter. I love the industry because its what I wanted to do. Too many people are entering it to earn an easy quid but now it's not even a quid.

As my boss used to sing " I wish I was a plumber I'd only work two days a week"
 
Hey Rob, Just for your benefit. The course that i'm doing is not a Electrical Trainee, read again the part about the time i spent on theory alone so far. maybe a 35ww at the moment and rising.

Check my posts previous and show me where i said i would call myself a spark after 5 weeks.

It's not the Electrical Trainee ruining the wage...look again at the bigger picture. The industry is on it's knees due to the recession not the open learners, read the news and see how bad things are, don't blame people like me, that's a poor call there. the agencies and compamnies are getting tighter with the money strings and agencies will always exploit ways to reduce their outgoings in order to maintain profits. Companies usually do the same...again, not the open learners fault.

Your absolutely right with your point about apprenticeships and jobs available. I never picked the time to start this career it was thrust upon me and therefore i took the choice to make the effort and take the plunge. I do however believe i have the ability and the intellect to learn as much as possible in the short space of time i have on site and reading the theory. Remember i get tested on my knowledge as well and i still have to complete the AM2 just like an apprentice spark would have to.

I'm in the industry to learn and to apply my knowledge and be rewarded for my time and effort, that is by no means an easy quid in my book but i understand what your saying.

I'm also going to do a plumbing course once i complete the sparks qualification, that way i can open my options up to doing more trade work.

I still see a hint of frowning in your wording and i know i can't change your mind on that but at least you have read and hopefully understood the reasons why we go down this route, were not here to p people off, were here to learn and work and like i said before, it's due to the limited options that we have to go down this route to get into the industry.

There will always be a stigma attached for both sides but at the end of the day, as long as the jobs get done safely and efficiently, there's absolutely no arguement about it.

And as my boss used to say "It's a hard life without a wife, when the man next doors got two".
 
Thank you for the positive reply cotty. Going down the self employed route as I have been before a few years ago and certainly aware its not going to be easy or guaranteed to get any work. If there is one thing I do its work hard and know my stuff.

Whatever you do DON'T touch ATL with a barge pole!!

A lot of bad things being said from people on their courses! Some of their training centre's have closed down aswell.

I don't want you losing valuable hard earned cash to be ripped off!
 
You are kind of misunderstanding my point of view.

I ploughed 4 years of my life into an apprenticeship for the 5 week boys to come and take the absolute pee out of my apprenticeship. The fact you are not a 5 weeker is neither here nor there as my point is aimed at the wonder courses.

Earlier today some chap had done a part p course ( whatever that is) and was looking to test an installation but had no idea as to what certs he should be filling in. So your telling me he's getting paid proper money?
If he is I want to know why and how.

I've got nothing against anyone doing it properly but these courses are killing off any chance of a 16 year old securing an apprenticeship. I fear for the future of the industry and the youth that actually want to get on in life.

As they say "that's life"
 
Cheers Cotty, have done my homework and ATL aren't sounding very good. Cheesy sales men and to many carrots dangled along with negative feedback about them it has got the alarm bells ringing.
 
Look into college route during evenings around your work commitments

I have done all 3 routes in my Time the Old apprenticeships were the best only wish i had completed mine anyway after years carying out work on site with no quals decided go the rip off fast course for 4 k got 6 weeks training theory and practical MEGGER 1552 some hand tools and regs , OSG etc 2382-10 2377, 2393 and logic full scope and defined scopes level A, B and C award complete ripoff really but you live and learn, Then upon realising not many employers would touch me with basic quals 2391-10 8 weeks evening course and passed first time only 4 of the 10 that was on the course did then 2330 evenings which wasnt all it was cracked up to be not a patch on old apprenticeships but i received Highest marks in all due to studying non stop for duration of the course same as i had done for 2391 and also completed NVQ 2356 lv3 By completing works voluntary for a firm near me and also by carrying out work for family for free and paying to be registered with ELECSA whcih I am on my 3rd year and received a A in all assessments so far fingers crossed and recently applied and received A JIB Gold card only took me 26yrs since my apprenticeship lol
At the end of the day the whole set up is in a mess there should be one set of quals for all regardless of age or circumstance wether this is done via open learning, college apprenticship or private course

fast track courses are jsut that fast teach you a lot of theory in short time but with limited practical
college eveninngs isnt as good as old apprenticeships lot of theory not much practical again
the most ideal route is an apprenticeship as you will get on site learning but if your not 16-18 dont hold much hope of you doing that

either way it will cost you thousands now especially as there is no help towards funding anymore and a good few years before you even start to earn any of your money back and will be a lot more time than 6 weeks thats jsut the beginning

probably best trying another trade like plumbing as they seem to earn more these days than anyone

I considered able skills in dartford amongst others
but as i live up north wasnt a viable ption plus I am a carer for my mrs who was left disabled after an operation resulting in both of us having to give up work

since that time i begged anyone inc Jobcentre to help with training , funding or advice and there was none we have paid for everything i have done and beleive me wasnt easy choice but unless you want me living off yor taxes for ever more then surely its better I try to get the relevent quals to work and pay my own way in this worls as we always did before hte mrs OP Not everyones circumstances are the same and life isnt planned out we make choices and have to deal with consequences or our decisions

good luck whatever you decide

I took the options available to me at the time after much research
 

Reply to Confused which one? ATL OLCI which code for city & guilds? in the Electrician Courses : Electrical Quals area at ElectriciansForums.net

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