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Hi All

Looking for some advice please. We moved into our new property a few months back and we're in the process of decorating downstairs including a new kitchen.

We have noticed that the electrics are not great. Firstly it's a old consumer unit with only MCBs and no RCDs. Secondly, by the looks of the wiring, there are no ring circuits, only radial. There is also no logic behind which sockets are on which circuit. I've found 4 different circuits in the Kitchen alone.

As part of kitchen installation, we're moving where the oven will be. Could I get confirmation on whether the Oven and Hob should be on separate circuits. We're having a double oven on one wall and an induction hob on another wall but just want confirmation either way if they need to be on separate circuits.

If a separate circuit is needed, we'll need a new consumer unit as there won't be any spare MCBs with a high enough rating. I like the idea of upgrading it anyway as I don't like the idea that there are no RCDs.

So my questions are:
  1. Would an electrician install an new consumer unit on the old red and black wiring?
  2. Would the fact that all circuits appear to be radial be an issue?
  3. There is the possibility of re-wiring the downstairs prior to finishing off the decorating, would an electrician be ok with me laying the cables ready to be connected to the new consumer unit?
Any advice from a sparky would be welcomed.

Many thanks.
 
Hi All

Looking for some advice please. We moved into our new property a few months back and we're in the process of decorating downstairs including a new kitchen.

We have noticed that the electrics are not great. Firstly it's a old consumer unit with only MCBs and no RCDs. Secondly, by the looks of the wiring, there are no ring circuits, only radial. There is also no logic behind which sockets are on which circuit. I've found 4 different circuits in the Kitchen alone.

As part of kitchen installation, we're moving where the oven will be. Could I get confirmation on whether the Oven and Hob should be on separate circuits. We're having a double oven on one wall and an induction hob on another wall but just want confirmation either way if they need to be on separate circuits.

If a separate circuit is needed, we'll need a new consumer unit as there won't be any spare MCBs with a high enough rating. I like the idea of upgrading it anyway as I don't like the idea that there are no RCDs.

So my questions are:
  1. Would an electrician install an new consumer unit on the old red and black wiring?
  2. Would the fact that all circuits appear to be radial be an issue?
  3. There is the possibility of re-wiring the downstairs prior to finishing off the decorating, would an electrician be ok with me laying the cables ready to be connected to the new consumer unit?
Any advice from a sparky would be welcomed.

Many thanks.
1) As long as the wiring passes the test that should be carried out there will be no problem utilising the old colour cables, any new wiring must be in the new colours and a nitice warning of mixed colours are used in this installation, or words to that effect.
2) No Issues with radials
3) Y ou will need to speak to the Electrician about it, and it should be inspected at stages for him to be able to certify the installation.
 
Agree with @Pete999 about the cables prior to the electrician coming around. As the electrician will need to be sure of cable size, installation methods etc... They time/labour it saves might not be all that much and for peace of mind may be worth having them do the complete job
 
Many thanks Pete999,

What would he need to inspect re the new cables?

Also any thoughts on the Hob and Oven circuits? Would they need to be on separate circuits?
 
You would have to have the specification of the appliances to design the kitchen installation properly. It would be best to have the cooking appliances on a separate circuit/s.

A full test of all circuits would be needed to facilitate a consumer unit upgrade.

Please don't run any cables until you have engaged an electrician and agreed on work. Some may entertain this way forward with the customer involved in the installation, some may not. I know I wouldn't normally.
 
Many thanks Pete999,

What would he need to inspect re the new cables?

Also any thoughts on the Hob and Oven circuits? Would they need to be on separate circuits?

He would need to confirm that the correct size and type of cable has been installed, and that no damage has been done to the cable during installation such as scratches or friction burns.
Also the regulations are quite particular about where cables can or cannot be installed, so they will need to confirm that cables are installed in the correct places, holes drilled in joists correctly etc.
 
1) As long as the wiring passes the test that should be carried out there will be no problem utilising the old colour cables, any new wiring must be in the new colours and a nitice warning of mixed colours are used in this installation, or words to that effect.
2) No Issues with radials
3) Y ou will need to speak to the Electrician about it, and it should be inspected at stages for him to be able to certify the installation.
here's pete doing his inspector clousseau impression.

" a rhum"? "Does you dog bite?"
 
He would need to confirm that the correct size and type of cable has been installed, and that no damage has been done to the cable during installation such as scratches or friction burns.
Also the regulations are quite particular about where cables can or cannot be installed, so they will need to confirm that cables are installed in the correct places, holes drilled in joists correctly etc.

That make sense but I have to ask: if this would be needed for new wirings then why would the same not need to be done for old wires when an electrician comes to install a new consumer unit. Especially in an older house when you can't guarantee the wires are compliant.
 
if the red/black cables test out OK, there's no requirement to replace. an analogy couldbe that you have an older car with no airbags. come MOT time, would you expect that fitting them would be mandatory?
 
Many thanks Pete999,

What would he need to inspect re the new cables?

Also any thoughts on the Hob and Oven circuits? Would they need to be on separate circuits?
He would need testequipment such as
1)Insulation ResistanceTester
2) Low resistance Ohmeter
3) Earth Loop impeadance tester
4) Approved Voltage indicator
5)Proving unit
6) Lock off kit
7) RCD tester
8) A comprehensive Electrician's tool kit
9) A pad of electrical installation Certificate
10) Membership of one of the CPSchemes ( not crucial but adviable)
11) Training and experience in Domestic rewires.
1,2,3 and 7 Can come in the form of a MFTmulti Function Tester.
11) can be obtained by doing the DI's short course (but that doesn't give you any experience a proper Apprenticeship is preferable.)

Can't say anything about the cooker and Hob as we don't know the load characteristics of both items.
This is sounding more like you are intending to attempt this work yourself, don't.
 
Last edited:
When an electrician changes a board he is not signing his name as having installed the circuits. He’s changed the board, tested, and signed for that work - that’s why he can change a board without opening up the walls to inspect cables. If he didn’t need to inspect new cables that you’ve dropped in as new work though, where would it end? You may as well just install the lot and have him squiggle on a scrap of paper.
 
He would need testequipment such as
1)Insulation ResistanceTester
2) Low resistance Ohmeter
3) Earth Loop impeadance tester
4) Approved Voltage indicator
5)Proving unit
6) Lock off kit
7) RCD tester
8) A comprehensive Electrician's tool kit
9) A pad of electrical installation Certificate
10) Membership of one of the CPSchemes ( not crucial but adviable)
11) Training and experience in Domestic rewires.
1,2,3 and 7 Can come in the form of a MFTmulti Function Tester.
11) can be obtained by doing the DI's short course (but that doesn't give you any experience a proper Apprenticeship is preferable.)

Can't say anything about the cooker and Hob as we don't know the load characteristics of both items.
This is sounding more like you are intending to attempt this work yourself, don't.
I have 1, 2 and 3:(
 
That make sense but I have to ask: if this would be needed for new wirings then why would the same not need to be done for old wires when an electrician comes to install a new consumer unit. Especially in an older house when you can't guarantee the wires are compliant.

Because you’d have to take up the floors and strip the plaster off of the walls, which is not a reasonable thing to do.
You have to do the best you can with testing and inspecting the accessible parts to make an assessment of the installation.
But for new work there is no reason not to thoroughly inspect.
 
I have a ÂŁ10 digital multimeter..
 
Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs.:D
Used to work with a Guy, from Whitstable, sarky git he was, as example if you said to him, I have one of those, his stock answer was "what do you want a paper hat" got right up my nose. So our conversations got a bit less as time went on.
 

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