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  1. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    I recently bought a 12V Whale Gulper 220 waste water pump to remove water from a shower on the groundfloor of my house in Germany (no way to gravity empty the bath/shower.)
    I am after advice on if I have the correct 240V AC to 12V DC transformer.
    The pump is a diapragm pump and the instructions state the following:
    Voltage 12 V
    Recomended fuse size: 5Amp automotive (supplied and fitted)
    Dry running Current: 2.4A
    Current draw: 3.5A

    The transformer I fitted is described as the following
    Waterproof LED supply
    Model 12V60W IP67
    Input AC 100-240V, 47-63Hz, AC 1.67-0.56A

    Output DC 12V +/- 5%, DC 5A, 60W.

    The pump works but only runs at 2 L/min when it should run at 10+ L/min. I am fairly confident the pipework is not an issue. (no blockages, pipes big enough etc)

    Before I go back to the manufacturers and complain could someone tell me if my transformer is likely to be correct or if I am missing something.

    Many thanks for any help,

    Duffielddan
     
  2. Pete999
    Online

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    I would hazard a guess that you have an incorrectly sized transformer, does the information on the actual pump not tell you what power supply is needed?
     
  3. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Try it with a car battery see what happens.
     
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  4. buzzlightyear
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    buzzlightyear Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    star command
    if all fails use a bucket.
     
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  5. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Have you measured the open circuit of the transformer, if it is 12v with no load it maybe suffering volt drop. If it functions correctly on a car battery this is probably the case.
     
  6. static zap
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    static zap Regular EF Member

    Location:
    west midlands
    Are the wires between the transformer and pump , long and getting warm ?

    (Do you know others using same pump - or could Statistics be optimistic .)
    (also check pump is 12V model )
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  7. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Out of interest, why didn't you buy the transformer from the same vendor as the pump? Surely this is the ideal approach...................
     
  8. static zap
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    static zap Regular EF Member

    Location:
    west midlands
    Found some instructions saying some models , to lift water over 1m obstruction , syphon action so may be wrong for you application .
     
  9. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    These are generally marine pumps which do operate from batteries.
     
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  10. Richard Burns
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    Richard Burns Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Business Name:
    Richard Burns
    From your description the power supply you have should operate the pump successfully.
    If the pump has a damaged diaphragm or seals then the flow rate can be very low.
    If you are trying to pump over 1m in height then the pump will be slow or stop.
    If the pump is trying to lift the water to the inlet then it will not work effectively.
    Because the power supply is not cutting out, which is what I would expect if it were overloaded, I would suspect that there is a problem with the pump or out flow route.
     
  11. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    How long and what size is the cable from the transformer to the pump?
     
  12. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Ok, why didn't the op buy a battery from the same supplier......
     
  13. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    I am assuming he has it in a house.
     
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  14. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks Pete999,
    The pump is mostly used in a marine application although can also be used for household bathrooms where no gravity fed waste pipe is available. Very little information therefore on supply requirements
     
  15. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks westward10. I will give it a go this evening.
     
  16. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Hi static zap. Wires are very short, less than 20cm and haven't noticed any heating. I have read about the pump on forums and seems that it should work. Pump actually claims up to 14 L/min but I am guessing that this is optimistic but less than 2 is a long way off.
     
  17. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Hi static zap. Wires are very short, less than 20cm and haven't noticed any heating. I have read about the pump on forums and seems that it should work. Pump actually claims up to 14 L/min but I am guessing that this is optimistic but less than 2 is a long way off.
    Hi Murdoch,

    They do have a transformer but it is expensive and has many functions that I don't need. automatic start and cut off etc. I simply want to manually switch the pump on and off when used.
     
  18. duffielddan
    Offline

    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Hi static zap. Wires are very short, less than 20cm and haven't noticed any heating. I have read about the pump on forums and seems that it should work. Pump actually claims up to 14 L/min but I am guessing that this is optimistic but less than 2 is a long way off.
    Hi Murdoch,

    They do have a transformer but it is expensive and has many functions that I don't need. automatic start and cut off etc. I simply want to manually
    switch the pump on and off when used.
     
  19. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    ^^ do they not offer a more basic transformer?
     
  20. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Unf
    Unfortunately not. I will give a car battery a go and see if that works. Should hopefully be able to see if it is the pump or the transformer
     
  21. Lucien Nunes
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    Lucien Nunes Mercury Arc Rectifier Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    London
    The car battery test is a good one, but make sure you include an appropriate fuse. If there is a fault, the much higher current available from the battery could fry the motor and invalidate the warranty even if the pump was faulty from new, as the makers stipulate a 5A fuse.

    Alternatively, just measure the voltage at the pump leads with a DC voltmeter - 12V +/- 1V would suggest a pump / pipework problem, anything less suggests the supply is inadequate. This is quite possible - the normal running current is shown as 3.5A but this is an average figure. A single-diaphragm pump such as this has a pulsating load that peaks once per stroke, that might peak over 5A especially when starting (although not long enough to affect a 5A fuse). Starting from rest could be tripping the supply into 'foldback' immediately, where the voltage drops away to reduce the current to a low value, until the load is removed to trigger it to reset.

    I would not have chosen a power supply intended for LEDs, I would be looking more at a 10A / 120W general purpose supply. Note that an electronic power supply behaves quite differently from a traditional wirewound transformer-rectifier when faced with an awkward load. A transformer will ride it, and just droop a little, eventually overheating if heavy overload continues for too long. An electronic one is more likely to go into some kind of protective mode even on a very brief overload such as starting a motor.

    If memory serves right, these pumps make about 120 strokes per minute (don't quote me on that). From the rate and the sound one can usually tell whether a diaphragm pump is stiff, or the pipework obstructed, or the supply is faulty. Or maybe I've spent too much of my life lying in bilge listening to pumps and generators and things.
     
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  22. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks Lucien Nunes for the comprehensive reply. I have now carried out the car battery test, with the 5A fuse in line and achieved a wonderful 14-15 L/min. Completely different from before so I am pleased with that. All I need now is the correct transformer. I note your comments on transformer but I am a complete novice with this sort of thing. Can you give me a few hints as to what I should be looking for. I will probably buy from Ebay. I did wonder about the LED transformer but it didn't cost much.
     
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  23. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Don't know how to put links on here but Google "Roy Pow C120 power supplies" which sell on Amazon, they do a power supply which is recommended for appliances powered by car 12v power outlets. They suggest it can power compressors and the like.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  24. duffielddan
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    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks to everyone for their help. Just need to find the right transformer now.
     
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  25. duffielddan
    Offline

    duffielddan EF Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks, I will have a look at it.
     
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