Cowboys

[revelap]

I agree, I thought that was the whole point of us spending hard earnt cash to register with the various bodies available to us who promised to outlaw the yahoo cowboys !!

 

[Spoon]

I think that Des #9 point seems to be the case. Not enough people have died. Electrical faults usually only kill one person. Gas faults can take out a street.

 

[Busbar]

Well its about time we followed Europ after all we are susposed to be part of it

Forget the EU, it's got less teeth than a gold fish and doesn't give a damn outside of Brussels.

I've retired to Cyprus and I can report the domestic electrics here are deadly.

My villa completed late 2009 (Developer Polydefkis) had no RCD protection, just MCBs. My earth rod was an 62cm bit of zinc plated steel pipe clubbed into the ground. The earth wire was attached using a stainless Jubilee Clip.
The armour feed to the pool pump house had been cut through and rejoined inside an IP45 plastic box. Brass glands were used but as we all know plastic just isn't a good conductor. How did I find the latter, well I had a buzz (touch voltage) on the pool pump so I knew the earth was missing. It didn't take long to find as the armour was only 10 cm below the gravel!
The 16 amp feed to the immersion heater was split half way up where it branched off to feed the jacuzzi bath.
Loads of spurs everywhere. What a nightmare.

AHK, the electricity distributer and enforcer visited to see for themselves. They couldn't believe what I showed them then were quick to point out it wasn't their responsibility to check the developers work.

So, cowboys here abound and flourish and there is no platform for redress. Having said that, AHK have stated that domestic installations must now comply to the UK 16th Ed issue 1. Who is going to enforce that I wonder......

If you ask a Cypriot about harmonisation they will all start humming the same tune. Grrrrrrr.

Busbar (Industrial Elect).

 

[Engineer54]

Hi ya BusBar, ...and welcome!!!

I'm another Brit that lives in Cyprus, i'm in the Larnaca area though not there at the moment. Your not alone in your concerns, fortunately, i was around when most of my house was being built, but still had a few surprises none the less.

 

[pblec]

i think the governing bodies should do more to promote this to the gen public rather than bitch between each other over whose best

PIR's should be enforced more, i hoped with the old HIP the would become mandatory it didn't.

i send a copy of my registration cert when i quote saying its about raising consumer awareness about only using reputable tradesmen

 

[mcs.serv]

This is what just happened to me.
Monday Eve, went to look at small job. Customer seemed very knowledgeable about pee etc
Job Details:
Remove 4 off ceiling fan/light fittings, replace with MK pendants
Remove 4 off 1G 1W brass switches, replace with MK white
Remove 2 off 2G brass sockets, replace with MK white
Remove 1off 45A pull switch, replace with MK white

Customer requested a minor cert for works ( 4 circuits)

Have just phoned him with quote, after some abuse about me being a robbing b**********, he informed me a friend of his has quoted him £100.00 so I wont be getting the job.
I asked if the friends quote included the certs. His reply, " for a 100 quid I don't really care"
Haven't put on what I quoted, just wanted to see what you guys would quote, I'll let you now after a few replies

Cheers Martin

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be honest MCS that looks like 2-3 hours work. I would be thinking perhaps 80-90 pounds for that, if local and depending on what accessories the customer wanted.

 

[pblec]

why are you issuing a cert its like for like sort yourself a standard letter basicaly saying all work done is complient, blah, blah but no certification is required,

i use them for cooker installs, and replacing light fittings for tennants to prove the work was done correctly - i know i could use an invoice but its for pound notes!

another thing that price did seem steep, but i don't know your area or competitions rates

 

[kung]

Just renewed my NICEIC membership for the 3rd year £475.00 and insurance next week is due then the usual coffee and scone with the onsite assessment and another year battling against the rogues ! What a crock ! my JIB card says im competent and it also costs us £475.00 and an onsite to prove we are so why not have a loophole where we can take our JIB cards to the LABC and insurance and this enables us to bypass the schemes and satisfys LABC were competent enough to do the stinking job we've qualified for and doing for years ?
Part p grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as I'm aware, the JIB has provided access for the LABCs to the card data base.
So if they wanted to, the LABCs could easily ascertain whether someone is in the JIB, and whether they were competent.

 

[oldtimer]

Just renewed my NICEIC membership for the 3rd year £475.00 and insurance next week is due then the usual coffee and scone with the onsite assessment and another year battling against the rogues ! What a crock ! my JIB card says im competent and it also costs us £475.00 and an onsite to prove we are so why not have a loophole where we can take our JIB cards to the LABC and insurance and this enables us to bypass the schemes and satisfys LABC were competent enough to do the stinking job we've qualified for and doing for years ?
Part p grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In Scotland if you are not registered then "some" local authorities will accept test sheets with a colour copy front and back of your SJIB card along with a copy a a current calibration certificate now you may say thats not right but here is the rub as an electrician you are not legally obliged to "register" with a scheme it is only a recomendation but some LAs are saying you must be registered where others are hedging their bets as they are no doubt aware because it is not an legal obligation to be registered they in fact could be taken to court for not allowing an individual to conduct his or her free trade . Remember if legally you had to be registered then you would not get insured and as I have said for years the starting point for us electricians is the JIB or SJIB I do not know about England but here as far as I am concerned we are all SJIB registered they hold information on how long you have had your card and qualifications, etc so why the hell are we not using it as a central register for Joe or Jean public to log on see your grade qualifications and also if your are insured plus if you earn over say £120,000 then you have to get registered as it is pretty obvious that you have a couple of employees.

PS also if you think the JIB/insurance thing would not work then remember the next tim yo log on for a tax disk because the system can check if your car/van is insured and road taxed so this system can work it can free up people like me to carry out my legal daily business without getting me so tied up with a registration company who lets face it could not give a ---- about a business earning £250,000 and why do I say that because it is in their schedule if you earn over this then they want a 1% cut of your profits above it.

Also forgot to add when Screwflux opened their Electroflux counters they told me I could not register with them as I was not Part P or registered when I explained to them that they were trying to impose English regulations in Scotland I got a very nice phone call from their Scottish manager who said yes you are correct we are changing this in Scotland so that you will get a Electriflux account on the presentation of your SJIB card

 

[Amp David]

IMO probably the best way to start preventing any old fool doing major electrical work is to stop selling bulk electrical supplies to the public.

Problem with that though is how is it policed, eg the proper spark who has no scheme membership etc but does a proper job, how does he prove to the supplier hes legit.

Good idea but i think its need a lot of work to make it happen properly

 

[pblec]

not all of us are JIB (i am - but thats not the point)

Part P is not rocket science but also as you read on here only applicable to domestic, i don't know half the terms the industrial guys post up on here it may as well be a totaly different language, but i know my drilling zones socket heights and whats notifiable. if it was to go off JIB then obviously part p would have to become a qualification added on, so your JIB card now says part p approved you're laughing jobs sorted - apart from my gold JIB card says qualified supervisor for part p on it so its already done.

i don't think its down to quals its down to policing, domestic is easy and because its easy everyone thinks they can do it.

 

[oldtimer]

pblec I hear what you say but if they are meant to police it as you say how come I have never heard of anyone having their registration withdrawn from them one instance up here was a "registration" company asked another member to sort out in their words a mess on a job but the individual who caused it is still trading and still registered. I am not against registration infact I want it to work but there is a balance here if you look at the gas safe system yes it is great but certain big companies are pressuring their staff not to go to a job and do it but to sell sell sell . in my view we need to simplify things this multiple registration schemes is the the same mess the building trade got themselves into years ago but I still say that it is an "infringement on free trade" to prevent an individual from going about their daily legal business. And again we are not going to stop Joe Bloggs doing his DIY electrics the only thing that will stop this is the insurance companies when they put a clause in their policy that say if your house is damaged or burns down due to your diy electrics then we will only pay out 50% of the policy and if you dont think this will work then an example would be the USA years ago who realised that (at the time) battery smoke detectors saved lives and properties so they gave you a discount on your policy if you fitted them then eventually they made it maditory or they would not insure you so as I say these are the people who will drive this not us not government or registration companies..

 

[Merv]

To my mind Part P actually encourages cowboys, simply because they can readily undercut the registered tradesmen who are now lumbered with it.
If extra legislation were introduced to enforce Part P, then who would have to pay for it?
Certainly not the electricians who are asking for it.
The taxpayers would have to pay, or the immediate consumer through the higher cost of certificates, and they never wanted Part P in the first place.
All I can see here is people conspiring to protect their own interests, and someone else having to foot the bill.

 

[Merv]

Sorry about the large fonts and the bold, that was unintentional.

 

[Merv]

That's better.

 

[supasparxs]

IMO probably the best way to start preventing any old fool doing major electrical work is to stop selling bulk electrical supplies to the public.

Agree,
If B+Q, screwfix or whoever stopped selling twin and earth then the cowboys wouldn't be able to buy the materials

I have been in engineering wholesalers just to buy a Tap and been refused as they have a minimum spend policy, as they are trade only. (I was pi**ed off at the time, but understand it)

 

[Merv]

What’s so special about electricians?
Why not just close down all DIY outlets and builders merchants to the public?
That would protect all tradesmen from cowboys.

Well you started it!

 

[Merv]

Then when you want to fit a new door to your living room, you can pay through the nose, and then again for a bit of paper saying that it was fitted by a tradesman.

Marvellous.