Customer doesnt want us to complete!

[MTI]

Ok guys looking for some advice. Will be contacting my scheme provider and LABC tomorrow.

basically builder starts wiring an extension and then calls me in to finish it and sign off. I told them i cant do that and it will need putting right as i cant even see their first fix due to plastering. Expressed this to customer too.

customer asks you to do work in other areas to be renovated to include putting right existing (not builders work) and alter/upgrade things to suit building works. You agree to work direct for customer on agreed day rate plus materials.

You do all you can for customer and help out builders by fitting in with their work to suit as you go along. Bits get done here and there as needed. Things are incomplete here and there and certain things need putting right as agreed with customer prior to works starting

Builder takes tons of cash from customer and requests more and more in a short period of time equating to more than agreed price. Customer gets upset although you have worked directly for customer and are not involved because builder quoted a ballpark in his amount for electrical and you told customer that is nothing to do with you and you agreed a day rate and estimate timescale. I did a ton of work like i was on price!

Customer makes part payment for a couple of days work and materials delivered and is happy. You then go away for a few days to come back and find customer is v upset and cant afford to continue. On top of this, builder has tried to do more work to get further money, not be kicked off job and even has installed more circuits in many places, altered yours and caused chaos in a nutshell!

Given that id first and second fixed an area hoping to come and test and energize on my return to find out its been altered massively is not my fault. Another example is one area/new extension required a sub CU fed from main board so id installed some circuits before i went away and did a bit of 2nd fix here and there and mounted new said board. Builder alters and adds cables in non prescribed zones!!!! to suit further work whilst your away so they can board areas.

At the end of all this, customer will not pay up and i cannot complete the works i did, remove and put right the wrong bits that builders did nor test and cert. I cant even say if alterations are energized now where id been working and not got to complete as along with others were told to pack up and leave on what was just supposed to be another normal day at work!

its a real royal mess! please advise guys and please do not shoot me down. this is out of my control! and i said id never work for builders and i didnt - i worked for customer who shot me instead! out of pocket and out of mind!

 

[telectrix]

how much out of pocket are you? if it's under £400 labour, then walk away from these arseholes. bite the bullet and move on. i had to do it a couple of years ago, when the customer changed his mind and refused to pay for the extra work, then tried screwing my price down. in the end he got trading standards involved, saying i'd refused to complete the works. when they learnt the truth, they sent him packing.

 

[MTI]

Your totally on my page there telectrix! Yes its a total mess. To start with i tried to patch things up with customer to be told my rate is extortionate although id shaved 50 a day off my price to help out someone in a mess and get further work whilst im there but it didnt happen and i wasnt thanked either. My rate was negotiated and agreed without me even making dosh on materials at all! Stuff was going off all over and to be honest im about £500 out of pocket but all in all im gonna walk and contact LABC to say works are done by a non part p person and not to regs (cables horizontal mid way up walls without outlets!) but im worried ill be bitten for taking part in the first place. Overall, stuff the dosh and customer has spent 30k on work that cannot be certified and needs replacing. We will see who cant sleep at night!

 

[R G]

What a nightmare situation , That's the trouble getting involved with scummy builders , I would walk as all the builders crap is gonna become your's . advise customer that the builder has to be responsible for what he has done.

 

[MTI]

can i be held liable if my works are altered without my consent and are now unsafe? Surely not if its out of my control. Im just worried that i could be called up if a complaint arises when i notify LABC of the job in question and i cannot say who did and didnt do said parts of install etc.

 

[Thefailsafe2012]

I'd be inclined to go back, whip out the main fuse and run fer it. Customer sounds a right mike hunt, and its ridiculous that you'll have to end up swallowing it, although I'm sure it could have been worse, no amount of money is easy to let go when you've worked for it fairly!

 

[R G]

Are you a member of a scheme , if you are report all to them , if not then report all to LABC !!!

 

[telectrix]

notify your scheme first and also LABC that you have done work there and it has been altered by unqualified idiots. bit of luck the builder and client will get their just desserts when LABC refuse to sign it off.

 

[MTI]

What a nightmare situation , That's the trouble getting involved with scummy builders , I would walk as all the builders crap is gonna become your's . advise customer that the builder has to be responsible for what he has done.

This is why i worked for client direct as been there done that and been burnt before. Im going to cause uproar when i notify customer and LABC as builders going to have to put it all right but if i installed some and they altered it all then can i be responsible at all? after all, i can certify my own work if its my own any other day but now cannot touch this. Unfortunately i dont have photos or other evidence but nor does the builder or client to be honest. its --- for tat really. Im worried that next spark will say who did this and anyone on sites points to me as will customer really even though customer admits they instructed builder to carry out elec work before and in my absence. Its also in his original quote it turns out!

 

[MTI]

thought about this tomorrow as it goes...sneak in for photos and collect rest of materials on site that customer refused to let me have even though they wouldnt pay me on invoice! shame it was female customer....

 

[chilliwilly]

I really do sympathise with you my learned friend, I don't know of anyone this hasn't happened to.

In future you need to consider drawig up a basic contract based on English law, and get your customer to read and agree to the terms and conditions especially regarding an agreed amount of money per percentage of completion, even on a rewire or a days work. Then a 30% deposit when materials are delivered to site, then if they get stolen its not your problem, and also the technical spec must stipulate that you will carry out design and verification, installation/construction, and testing and inspection. And where it is found that any third parties have interfered or tampered with first and second fixings or terminated accessories. They will be liable to any extra costs to repair or make good any damage caused by such actions, as will be the case with any deviatons or departures that may exist or are found on their existing installation.

I found that when first implementing such a move it scared a few customers off, but my gut instincts resulting from their body language on my comments made to them about prices. So it didn't really bother me.

All you can do is report the matter to building control that there's a builder carrying out electrical work that's notifyable and you know this from fact, but unless you have any agreement in writing for you to carry out any work for them. I'm afraid you don't have much comeback regarding payment owed to you.

 

[Toonlad]

MTI, sorry to hear your in a pickle. I would document all that you have done to date, if you can supply photos to back it up. Then write to your customer,building control, and your scheme inspector. Then ask LABC and your scheme inspector, your next course of action, and where you stand. Then walk away, hopfully the customer will see sense and realise he has made an error in judgement towards the builder, and come to you to sort out. If not then take to small claims court and get back what you can.

Hindsight,,,, I personally take photos of all my first and second fix. Not that im a spotter, just that i can prove installation was correct, and the finished product. So if they get DIY happy and **** it up i can show a pic and say, it wasnt like that when i finished it. Also good to show people whats actually involved in a re-wire, it lets them see the hidden costs, that they dont understand.

 

[MTI]

I really do sympathise with you my learned friend, I don't know of anyone this hasn't happened to.

In future you need to consider drawig up a basic contract based on English law, and get your customer to read and agree to the terms and conditions especially regarding an agreed amount of money per percentage of completion, even on a rewire or a days work. Then a 30% deposit when materials are delivered to site, then if they get stolen its not your problem, and also the technical spec must stipulate that you will carry out design and verification, installation/construction, and testing and inspection. And where it is found that any third parties have interfered or tampered with first and second fixings or terminated accessories. They will be liable to any extra costs to repair or make good any damage caused by such actions, as will be the case with any deviatons or departures that may exist or are found on their existing installation.

I found that when first implementing such a move it scared a few customers off, but my gut instincts resulting from their body language on my comments made to them about prices. So it didn't really bother me.

All you can do is report the matter to building control that there's a builder carrying out electrical work that's notifyable and you know this from fact, but unless you have any agreement in writing for you to carry out any work for them. I'm afraid you don't have much comeback regarding payment owed to you.

all noted and thanks for your detailed input. Its not something i normally do and i do have t&c's for both domestic and commercial work plus small works contracts. Everyday is a school day and i agree i have no comeback on the money although i wont loose too much sleep over this. It was a last minute thing to help out a desperate customer who had no spark and not to just go sign off builders work which i would not do. There was no worry initially as the customer paid upfront for materials on first visit and a little labour on second day. I only did 2.5 days and went on holiday to return to this mess. it was on the next visit it all happened. There is no contract and so neither party has any comeback regarding who did what and who didnt or who owes who. theoretically i got payed upfront for gear but out of pocket on labour and materials still lay on site in a box which should be mine in lieu of labour. Going to draft my letter now

 

[telectrix]

think that's covered it. on a lighter note, my mate once said " nothing good has ever come out of yorkshire". i disagreed and here's the proof that he's wrong.

 

[MTI]

MTI, sorry to hear your in a pickle. I would document all that you have done to date, if you can supply photos to back it up. Then write to your customer,building control, and your scheme inspector. Then ask LABC and your scheme inspector, your next course of action, and where you stand. Then walk away, hopfully the customer will see sense and realise he has made an error in judgement towards the builder, and come to you to sort out. If not then take to small claims court and get back what you can.

Hindsight,,,, I personally take photos of all my first and second fix. Not that im a spotter, just that i can prove installation was correct, and the finished product. So if they get DIY happy and **** it up i can show a pic and say, it wasnt like that when i finished it. Also good to show people whats actually involved in a re-wire, it lets them see the hidden costs, that they dont understand.

cheers for the happier note! i have always meant to follow your advice and take photos etc and often do but unfortunately not on this occassion. yes the happy DIY that follows is a scary thought. Ive had others say 'can you just leave a cable dangling there and ill sort it later' eeekkkk!!!

 

[telectrix]

a frre thanks given to the first member who points out what is wrong with those bottles in my last post.

 

[valleybilly]

Until they pay up for the work u have done you don't have to cert nowt , your scheme provider should tell you this . Energize nothing till you get the cash . Inform your client all cables will need to be ripped out and re done £££££££££££££ costing even more if done again by a third party then play the waiting game . Once they pay you , don't finish the job for as long as they've kept you waiting for your dollars as this is the only justice you'll probably get .

 

[R G]

I had this out with an NIC inspector ,I told him I do not issue certs until payment is made, hesaid the payments are a seperate issue and certs still have to be issued!!

 

[telectrix]

well, he would. it's not his family that will starve if you don't get paid. sometimes witholding a cert is the only way to deal with these shyster clients.

 

[R G]

I had this out with an NIC inspector ,I told him I do not issue certs until payment is made, hesaid the payments are a seperate issue and certs still have to be issued!!

On another note though , if all you have done is first fix , then certs cant be issued anyway.