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Discuss Customer don't think they have to act on do the corrections in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. djlander
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    djlander EF Member

    Location:
    coventry
    Hello guys
    I have done a periodic test and inspection of a commercial building where public are involved in activities in the Areas, the document has a lot of number 1's on it but the customer thinks they don't have to act and do any of the changes because the document is not a notice! I have advised that they need to correct the number 1's but I keep hitting a brick wall, is there any documentation on the net that I can down load to show them that it is a requirement that they need to do the corrections to help them understand?:coolgleamA:
     
  2. djlander
    Offline

    djlander EF Member

    Location:
    coventry
    Sorry for typos but pressed wrong button ha!
     
  3. malcolmsanford
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    malcolmsanford Electrician's Arms

    They have no obligation to carry out any remedial work, the same as you have no standing in disconnecting a circuit that is dangerous.

    What you do have though is the ability to isolate a circuit/installation and issuing the client with either a danger notice or first a verbal and then a written indication that the circuit/installation "Requires urgent attention", and that you have isolated that circuit/installation. Unfortunately you can not disconnect the cables to completely shut off the danger as we can not do that under the law.

    If the customer then re-energises the supply then they have taken the responsibility and if anything happened it is their comeback. Also most insurance companies would null and void a policy on a report that had code 1 and 2, and was left without remedy.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. djlander
    Offline

    djlander EF Member

    Location:
    coventry
    Thank you, I had a feeling that was the case but just wanted to be sure, I may have to issues a danger notice and isolate the circuits that are a danger, I know they will reenergise the circuits so it will then remove me from responcibilty, thanks for your help
     
  5. Blowcat
    Offline

    Blowcat Regular EF Member

    Location:
    North West london
    Just out of curiosity, what are the faults on the circuits that you will isolate??
     
  6. djlander
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    djlander EF Member

    Location:
    coventry
    The worst one is where three lighting circuits on spereate mcb's have been cross wired, lives and nuterals are interconnecting the 3 circuits
     
  7. Ponty Massive
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    Ponty Massive Guest

    How does that work, how is it crossed wired? 3 lights, 3 mcb's and neutrals are connected?
     
  8. NMc
    Offline

    NMc Electrician's Arms

    Are you talking about borrowed neutrals?
     
  9. IQ Electrical
    Offline

    IQ Electrical Electrician's Arms

    If that's your worst one then I suspect that and the rest are in fact code 2 defects.

    You must point out that the client is in breach of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 while the code 1/2 defects have been brought to his/her attention but not rectified.

    It can also be an insurance requirement that a current Periodic Inspection Report is in place with a 'satisfactory' assessment.

    Current guidelines suggest the absence of any code 1 and code 2 defects to allow a 'satisfactory' assessment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  10. Blowcat
    Offline

    Blowcat Regular EF Member

    Location:
    North West london
    I personally am always reluctant to disconnect circuits unless there are exposed live parts present even then I try to avoid it.
    Assuming there are either borrowed neutrals and/or crossed feeds from the 3 MCB's I myself would leave it all alone till they ask for it to be fixed as I dont consider it to be causing immediate danger to any persons.
    It can be frustrating when a customer thinks they dont have to repair any code 1 or 2's. However it is their responsibility to ensure the electrical safety of that commercial property (as described in electricity at work regs 1989 I seem to remember???). They may have financial difficulties or just getting the periodic test done for statutary complience.
    Ive been to countless jobs where the previous cert is avaliable and all code 1's are still there from the previous test.
    All you can do is peform a good test, give them sound advice, get paid and move on.
     
  11. oxocube
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    oxocube Guest

    You have no right to switch off anything and could end up in a lot of trouble if you do. You were hired to do a PIR thats all, you should immediately verbally advise your employer of any dangers. Then back this up with a covering letter clearly explaining the dangers and the need for immediate action.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. NMc
    Offline

    NMc Electrician's Arms

    Correctly put
     
  13. malcolmsanford
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    malcolmsanford Electrician's Arms

    [TABLE="width: 352"]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]It is not sufficient simply to draw attention to the
    danger when submitting the periodic inspection
    report. At the very least, the inspector must ensure
    that the client is made aware at the time of
    discovery of the danger that exists. An agreement
    should be made with the client as to the appropriate
    action to be taken to remove the source of danger
    (for example, by switching off and isolating the
    affected part of the installation until remedied),
    before continuing with the inspection or testing.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    Taken from the ESC guide

    Not according to the ESC guide or IMO, You have every right to isolate a dangerous circuit. As I originally posted you can not disconnect it, but you can isolate it.




     
  14. johnboy6083
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    johnboy6083 Band Member Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South east
    i xcant imagine any court in the country would succesfully prosecute a spark or other engineer who disconnected a circuit because they believed it caused real danger to personell. I would do it, because i konw that anybody who owned an isnatllation like thatb woul;d know i was right, and wouldnt bother pursuing me, becauase if they did,i would back up my decision with a report including photos, and test results.
     
  15. oxocube
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    oxocube Guest

    Well I don't accept the esc stance or the difference between switching off or disconnecting. For the majority of cases, something that is dangerous is no longer dangerous once you are aware of the danger.

    For instance , you do a PIR and discover all class 1 light fittings outer casings are live. They are out of reach, so although potentially dangerous, they're not if you don't touch them. But some of you would scare the customer and switch off the circuit, so what happens later that night when the customer falls down the stairs or knocks over a candle and sets fire to the house. You removed one potential danger but in doing so have created others.
     
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