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If customer wants to haggle on price I stand firm. End of the day if I could knock money off it I'd have over priced in the first place.

And if they want to supply materials just ask them if they would go to the chip shop with a bit of fish and some potatoes and ask them to make them a fish supper
 
If customer wants to haggle on price I stand firm. End of the day if I could knock money off it I'd have over priced in the first place.

And if they want to supply materials just ask them if they would go to the chip shop with a bit of fish and some potatoes and ask them to make them a fish supper

I am going to use that now hahaha
 
I recently priced a refurb and extension at 26.5K...customer knocked me down to 24.5K...This was all priced off a drawing and itemised spread sheet the customer prepared. The customer has not compromised one bit and had absolutely every thing you can think of installed and changed the whole job from the original drawings/itemised spread sheet. I took weekly draws off the customer during the 1st fix to cover material, labour and profit and explained I couldn't price the job until the 1st fix was complete as he didn't know what he wanted and kept changing his mind...I've essentially done the 1st fix on day rate that I would normally charge the lads out at plus a bit extra. Completed the 1st fix and re-priced the job.....35K all in now.....told the customer 40K knowing he haggled me down last time.....haggles me down 3k.....I'm now 2K up on the job:D Serves him right for trying to negotiate my 1st price :eek::D
 
I recently visited a Bungalow, on the drive a rare classic car (30K)
the bungalow had been extended all round and the garage had been converted to a bedroom with ensuite
they wanted a few extra sockets installed, and a couple wiring correctly that were on extension leads, clipped in and painted over
I said I would like to carry out a series of tests firsts ( I neveer take on a job without a basic test)
test a socket in the extended sitting room, and the RCBO refuses to come back to life
he then admitted they had trouble in the past re setting it
off I go, get a replacement and install it and I charged him for one hour plus materials
not my fault
I noticed that in the older part of the house, there was only one socket per room wired in PVC with twisted cores so late 60s early 70s
the consumer unit had been fitted in the front hall, and the supply tails concealed with a plasterboard sheet, on battens, no metal protection, the earth cables came down from the roof ??
I had to cut away a layer of plaster to remove the lid of the CU
the earth electrode was not in evidence, and in the roof I could see right down to the consumer unit, the roof was full of junction boxes
in other words a real bodge, make it look pretty to sell it
I gave him a quite to install addtional socket outlets including making good the plaster and decoration ( yes I am old skool)
a new Consumer unit sited in a more sensible position, and earth electrode and general tidy up of the dodgy bits

he came back to me thanking me for my quote but saying it was much more money than they considered for such a small job ( a weeks work)
Again its that social class thing, he was retired and his pension is more than likely greater than my earnings
but he thinks tradesmen should not be paid much, I did notice a selection of power tools lying around and some poor remedial work done recently
they had only purchased the house about 18 months before, so why did he not have a full survey
oh the value of the house is nearly a million pounds with a 2 acre garden
I guess he was hoping I would come back with a lower quote
I dont even bother these days

on another job where we installed a complete new bathroom as well as new doors, tidied up the wiring, lots of small repairs and a full decoration job, the client said to me !! (He is a spit for Terry Tibbs and is a car dealer)
do you ever look at Barcodes ??
nope says I
Oh he said I scanned the barcode on the bath, and a firm up North can offer it 30 pounds cheaper!!
well I pointed out to him, I let him have the bathroom suite at trade price, and he would not have known what size bath to buy ( a real odd size)
and what about the sink and taps and toilet ?? and delivery from somewhere grim oop North ??
kind of shut his argument up
however all the way through the job, he was constantly moaning about how much tradesman charge
I did point out that we have thousands of pounds worth of specialist tools and 40 odd years of experience, and we had to hump all of that stuff to his job
he owns about 16 houses that he rents out ??

the last one he has decided not to pay me and my mate to decorate, but to do it himself
a text this very day is asking if I can recommend some on to re plaster the house
( its dry lines and he has scraped the tape and finish away, due to not leaving the steamer on long enough as he is such a tightwad)
I happened to be passing the house the other evening and looked in to see the mess he was making
my attitude is that I would rather sit in my garden and read a book than work for little or nothing, and I dont charge very much anyway
 
With experience you tend to get a feel for some customers and sort of have an instinct that they are going to haggle. They often give off tell tale signs or comments like "I've seen in screw fix or B&Q..."

I always over price these jobs, that way if I get it I'm quids in and don't worry too much about the problems I'm going to face during the job, which are guaranteed with these types of customer! Or I don't get it and am happy in the knowledge that I haven't been had over.
 
I have a standard answer to bartering types.

If you think you can get the same quality of materials and workmanship and the same standard of service for less money, then go for it... I would.

I will review a price if I think I've rushed the quote but more often than not if I've rushed it I've missed something off.
 
If they have two Audis on the drive, then they are vain and lacking in any commonsense and are only interested in their image
and want it all for nothing.
Just a rule I use that seems to work
That just reminded me of a customer I went to quote for once:
The house was worth a couple of million, there was a Porsche and a Ranger Rover parked in the drive both with 3 digit private plates. As I walked round the house the Lady owner showed me her new kitten she had just paid £2k for (one of those things that look like a leopard) very nice. Any how I called her up the next day with the quote, she thanked me and said would discuss it with her husband. I got an email a few days later saying the quote was too expensive and that they were working to a tight budget is there any chance I could sharpen my pencil? Hmmm... £2k for a cat but £580 worth of electrical work is too expensive and over budget.
 
That just reminded me of a customer I went to quote for once:
The house was worth a couple of million, there was a Porsche and a Ranger Rover parked in the drive both with 3 digit private plates. As I walked round the house the Lady owner showed me her new kitten she had just paid £2k for (one of those things that look like a leopard) very nice. Any how I called her up the next day with the quote, she thanked me and said would discuss it with her husband. I got an email a few days later saying the quote was too expensive and that they were working to a tight budget is there any chance I could sharpen my pencil? Hmmm... £2k for a cat but £580 worth of electrical work is too expensive and over budget.
Different priorities David, people can't see the electrical work, and from a great deal of experience, these "rich well to do people" perceive people like us with disdain because we don't drive around in the latest model vehicle, and of course we work with our hands and wear work clothes, if you think I'm bitter with the rich, you would be right, not because they have money and nice things, but because they look down on those who don't.
 
Jeeez I hate these people, do they go the the Solicitor or Dentist and haggle about the prices, the OP made a mistake saying that he would reconsider the estimate, always stick with the price as then the customer thinks he's got you.

Always have a written contract especially if they are awkward and as the job progresses and they make changes to what is in the contract then charge them extra for it.
 
I went to look at a job, and the woman had it all printed out, list of materials, time it would take etc
so I took the list away after having a good look
they were adding value to the house, re locating a kitchen to a downstairs room to make it 4 bed and worth more
I was not doing the electrical work, they wanted me to do the tiling in the new kitchen and the shower, and re use some secondhand laminate flooring ?
I pointed out that some stupid Gombeen had previously glued the flooring down ?? and the glue would need to be removed and the upper side planed level ( it was awful)
I had to start in 2 weeks time and be done in 3 days as they were having the house valeted and then then marketed
At the time I was short of work and a bit hard up
to carry out the work I estimated 2 off us would be needed and 8 days work
so I would be working for 75p per hour according to her calculation
her husband was in the building trade and knew all about building work she told me

In Actual fact her Husband is like her a social climber, and vain, and merely works for a ground-working company in the office, he is not even a surveyor, just books the lorries in and out
I wrote her a nice quote, with the correct times and the real world cost

she rang me back and said oh dont worry about working to your usual standard, you can cut corners,and do it much cheaper than that , we only want to sell it, you can then do all the work in our new much bigger house we are buying!!!

I never lower standards, also its a good way for the customer to avoid payment
and the old story about a bigger house with loads of work is a standard lie used to try to keep the price down

one client used that on me for night on 20 years, until I called his bluff, and told him I was now charging him double

the woman involved with the above house, had 2 Audis on the drive, one of which was 4 wheel drive ( very useful round here with our roads ?)

They sold the house and the new owners had all sorts of problems,including work that was not registered with the planning department, a faulty boiler that had been moved, dodgy wiring, and no fire doors between the garage and the house??

One thing I do keep an eye on is the Gazette
her and her husbands name came up a year later with lots of creditors !!
one of whom was a German car dealer, and several tradesmen ?


if you know what Audi stands for you would know why I avoid them like the plague
 
My father gave me an excellent piece of advise for these situations.

When a customer states that Joe Bloggs has quoted for 'X' amount (cheaper than you), you should reply with.... Really, could you give me their number then as I will have them work for me and I can earn off them if there any good!!

Immediately after saying this watch the customers face :)
 
Just to put the other side: Negotiating with tradesmen, or even trying to sort out the best of two or three quotes is hard. I get my car serviced every year; if I don't like what they do, I can choose from a dozen competitors and mates in the pub will likely point me to a good one.

Most of us only ever employ an electrician once (maybe twice for a small job) so we have no experience; our pub mates don't have any either, at least none recent, so it is difficult to know if the guy sitting in your kitchen is an honest tradesman trying to make a living, or a wide boy who will either come in with a low price and then find all kinds of faults to jack it up, or come in high with "guarantees" of top quality fittings and first class professional work.

Reading the (often amusing) posts on this forum I see loads of jargon; incomprehensible to me, but obviously meaningful to you (at least most of you). The hypothetical guy in my kitchen is waffling on about "Z's" and voltage drops in T&E and my brain shut down. All I hear is "£How much?". Probably about twice what I expected.

Then I see the likes of Martin Lewis telling me that all prices are negotiable, so I ask my fellow tea drinker if he can see any way the price can be reduced. Does he get his phone out and swap the gold plated switches for plastic; suggest that maybe putting a power point in the far corner of the sitting room might be a bit tricky with the solid floor, and maybe I could hold off until Christmas when it gets a bit quiet, he could reduce the price. Or does he spit the tea out and stride off into the sunset in a huff at the insult to his (alleged) professionalism?

An anecdote:

I used to be a fleet manager and I had a good relationship with a small garage who fixed all the dents and scrapes that my drivers put on our cars and vans. One afternoon I was in his office when he got a phone call. He listened and I tuned out, but when it was over he had a little rant about effing customers who went round garage after garage getting quotes and didn't usually even bother to call and say he hadn't got the job. I said nothing.
 
That's not quite true, 20% on materials if you buy them but same on labour.

So it is true if you supply materials which was the scenario refrenced too, so you supplying them (non vat reg) would indeed make you 20% more expensive.

Labour only would not make a diference to a vat reg company, only non vat reg people it would affect making the vat reg sparks labour then 20% more expensive.
 
If i recall correctly as this was a year ago the materials he had priced at just over £30 inc delivery! (2 sockets, a light pendant, switch and backboxes, T&E and clips all from ebay!) - I didnt have the heart to tell him i could have got them cheaper as his colour printout looked so well presented. He allowed labour at 2 hours as he felt it wasnt too hard or a significant job. when i quoted £45 per point which i thought reasonable he looked as if i swore at him.... people can be funny

£45 per point is not enough surely? If it's surface maybe and close by but to chase and replaster (which is what i do on most small jobs for sockets) i would normally quote £65-70 per point as chasing can be quite hard and time consuming work.
 
If they have two Audis on the drive, then they are vain and lacking in any commonsense and are only interested in their image
and want it all for nothing.
Just a rule I use that seems to work

If they have two Audis on the drive, or two Beemers, or two Mercs for that matter, then they should automatically incur a 25% surcharge. :D
 
Over the years, I've had quite a few customers try all sorts of tricks to get me reduce my quotations. From the "I've had another quote from another electrician that is half the price you're asking" to the other old chestnut, "How much would you knock-off that price if I pay in cash?", I've heard them all. I'd like to think that I'm quite a good judge of character, and my intuition more often than not alerts me to such types. I find that it is usually the ones with big fancy houses with several top-of-the-range cars sitting on the driveway that play these games. They think nothing of spending six-figure sums on houses, five-figure sums on cars, four-figure sums on furniture, but grudge paying you a three-figure sum for carrying-out a professional service in their homes. Pah.

I really can't be bothered wasting my time with such people. Before walking away, I tell them to ask the guy who undercut me by 50% to give me a call as I would like to offer him immediate employment. There will always be employment opportunities at JK Electrical for electricians who are happy to work for £8 or £10 an hour.

And this dovetails nicely with my next point. I believe that a major factor in customers having unrealistic expectations as to what constitutes reasonable rates for the services of a qualified, professional, experienced electrician is attributable to the fact that there a lot of young boys fresh out of the training centres offering their services as 'electricians' at what can only be described as pocket-money rates. Glasgow is absolutely teeming with these guys at the moment. I'm trying to compete with boys offering to do EICRs for £40, consumer unit changeovers for £150, and rewires for a grand. Seriously.

Consequentially, when you have maybe two or three of these guys banging in quotes at half the price of yours the customer draws the conclusion that you are overcharging them! It never seems to enter their thinking that the other three are undercharging so to win jobs that they would not otherwise secure if they were to compete on a level playing field i.e. if they were to actually visit the customer's home to visually inspect the installation prior to submitting a quotation (regulation 132.16) for jobs that they can't be bothered to properly survey beforehand.

So, while some customers can be a real pain in the arse, a bigger pain in the butt as far as I'm concerned are the chancers within our trade who create such unrealistic customer expectations in the first place.
 

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