Customers

[Brian Boyd]

I`ve noticed a few times now people refering to jobs that need rcd`s or isolation switches or cable upgrades installed and then falling back on "but the customer won`t pay for that or hasn`t asked for that". Surely at some point as electricians we have right to enforce things like this in line with the regulations in the interest of everyone. Whats the general feeling with sparks feeling caught between regs and customers and is there anything that can be done about it? I myself have been in this position and always try to explain best thing to do but people don`t trust us and think we`re trying to keep ourselves in work even when its electrical safety as no 1 concern.

 

[Jon Bridges]

I think we all know the regs, part p and their short comings. I think the only way to avoid such conversations is to be as up front with a customer as possible. Always give them a written quote with as much detail about the work as possible and an accurate price.

For all the work Ive lost because a circuit isnt RCD protected Ive more than made up for in the additional work from other customers who put theirs and their family's safety over saving a few quid and ask me to upgrade the board when I tell them I cant make additions to their existing installation. I booked in 3 ccu changes last week alone from these types of situations. The customer generally trusts you if you are prepared to walk away from the job rather than cut corners. Those that don't, I wouldn't want to work for anyway.

 

[RexT]

Hi, I agree with Jon, it is best to put the point clearly and walk away from jobs that are purely insane where safety is forgotton above money.

Well said.

Rex

 

[Phil]

i once had a customer that needed all of the upstairs lighting replacing he had some cowboy in that had chopped in all over the place jb`s that the screws had come loose in unable to reach places a loft add on that was to say the least dangerous. he started quibbling about the price and asked what other options he had to sort it.he said it was too expensive and not necessary there has to be a cheaper way like the other guy charged. so the conversation went a little like this; "get a good smoke detector and fire extinguisher" i told him and by my face he knew i was being serious. not scare tactics just telling him how it was. the jb`s were arcing signs of melted insulation burnt transformers and so on. he asked me to isolate the circuit and would there be any chance of doing it first thing. I don`t lie or rip people off and if they don`t want the job doing that`s fine. as long as i don`t go to bed thinking about it on a night it shows i am happy with what i have done.

 

[ghost]

I hear what you are saying Brian. I flatly refuse to cut corners on any work. If I turn up to do a kitchen, for instance, and the customer has a rewireable wylex, I explain the situation to them and try to persuade them they really need to have a new CU installed. At the end of the day, if they are spending over 10 grand on a kitchen, surely they can afford the little bit extra to keep their family safe.
How many times have you heard, it's been fine for all these years, or maybe, when I plug my ancient iron in, this new RCD thingy you installed keeps tripping. It never did that before that thingy was fitted, what a nusience!
If only people could be educated sensibly, like the way they did with gas.
Programs, such as rouge traders etc, havn't helped the image of the honest tradesman.

 

[Phil]

so true. heard loads of times "what`s wrong with it? it works fine" "it can`t be dangerous it`s been like that for years" because it turns on and works they think it`s fine.

 

[Brian Boyd]

I agree that rogue traders hasn`t helped. I`ve had few jobs were i`ve given them detailed quote of all work required to keep the installation correct which consists of full itemised list in writing with quote figure at the end. 6 times out of 10 they walk away and the rest are more than happy and i can sleep easy when i`ve finished. Is there anything as electricians we could do like info site or leaflet or something that could give people overview of safe electrical working practice or explain what rcd`s are for in a language that everyone relates to without handing them the regs. It`d have to be backed by NICEIC/ Elecsa or the likes. Its just me thinking out loud of course but if people maybe understood electrics a bit better it`d help keep installations up to date when people are having work done. I`m not saying every job by xx years of age needs fixed but if your ammending it anyway to update it. I think i`ve got that said right lol

 

[Johno]

have not reads other comments, but i find customer relations is second to none.

 

[Johno]

tell em bollox

 

[Phil]

I agree that rogue traders hasn`t helped. I`ve had few jobs were i`ve given them detailed quote of all work required to keep the installation correct which consists of full itemised list in writing with quote figure at the end. 6 times out of 10 they walk away and the rest are more than happy and i can sleep easy when i`ve finished. Is there anything as electricians we could do like info site or leaflet or something that could give people overview of safe electrical working practice or explain what rcd`s are for in a language that everyone relates to without handing them the regs. It`d have to be backed by NICEIC/ Elecsa or the likes. Its just me thinking out loud of course but if people maybe understood electrics a bit better it`d help keep installations up to date when people are having work done. I`m not saying every job by xx years of age needs fixed but if your ammending it anyway to update it. I think i`ve got that said right lol

the RCDs explained | Electrical Safety Council they do some good consumer guides that they will post you if you email them and ask.

 

[Brian Boyd]

I`m only expressing my opinion and in my opinion an info leaflet or the likes would be benefit to customer relations.

 

[Sintra]

Additions & Alterations

There is no regulation in BS7671 that requires an existing installation to be upgraded to the current standard. However the requirements for carrying out an addition or alteration must be met. p4

Before an addition or alteration can be made to an existing installation it must be ascertained that the earthing and bonding arrangements comply with the current version of BS7671 and any existing electrical equipment including the incoming supply is adequate for the proposed addition or alteration. 131.8

Before an addition or alteration to an installation is energised, inspection and testing must be carried out to ensure the requirements of BS 7671 have been met and an appropriate certificate must then be issued. 134.2.1, 610.6, 631.1

Any defects found in the existing installation must be recorded on the Electrical Installation Certificate or Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate. 633.2

Therefore you only have to ensure that your alteration or addition complies to BS 7671 2008.

 

[Johno]

**** me sinatra have you got a life outside of regs, only taking the ****. Have you got kids?

 

[Sintra]

Yep 5 of them.

 

[Johno]

your missus must be a saint!

 

[Jason Smith]

I have 4 kids, and the regs book becomes kinda important when theres them things called wires running through yer gaff which can catch light ...........

 

[ezzzekiel]

top and bottom - most people dont care, cost is there only concern.

 

[Andy17v]

I recently had two houses next door to each other which - to comply needed new CU installed - I priced the job only to find out on the day of the install that the electricity distributer wanted £80 for one house and £150 for the other - to fit isolating switches so that I could do the work safely. They argued that this was the only safe way to do the work as opposed allowing me to cut seals and inform them when the work was complete to let them seal the fuse again.
I raise this point as 10miles north the electricity supplier was quite happy to let do the work and for them to reseal it afterwards!
In my opinion these companied have the monopoly on this and are happy to make it as hard as possible for legal sole traders to try and make an honest living.Doing this they just lend themselves to letting cowboys into the industry that don't give a dam!

 

[Brian Boyd]

Additions & Alterations

There is no regulation in BS7671 that requires an existing installation to be upgraded to the current standard. However the requirements for carrying out an addition or alteration must be met. p4

Before an addition or alteration can be made to an existing installation it must be ascertained that the earthing and bonding arrangements comply with the current version of BS7671 and any existing electrical equipment including the incoming supply is adequate for the proposed addition or alteration. 131.8

Before an addition or alteration to an installation is energised, inspection and testing must be carried out to ensure the requirements of BS 7671 have been met and an appropriate certificate must then be issued. 134.2.1, 610.6, 631.1

Any defects found in the existing installation must be recorded on the Electrical Installation Certificate or Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate. 633.2

Therefore you only have to ensure that your alteration or addition complies to BS 7671 2008.

Thats what i`m saying. For instance replacing shower not protected by 30mA protection and advising them this also needs done would be on circuit and would be in line with what you say in line with certification but if the people aren`t prepared to pay for that and are adamant they just want shower done were do we stand. We can`t afford not to work but don`t want to leave things unsatisfactory.

 

[RexT]

Hi Phil7677,

It sounds good and I would vote for anything that made it easier. The simple languauge bit is a good idea as we all know the regs are not the best thing for the customer to understand.

Best wishes

Rex