Discuss DIY Check: Adding a socket to the attic - spurring decisions! in the DIY Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Fleetwood

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Hello. I am installing a CCTV system for my mum. It's a basic IP camera setup, with up to 4 cameras and a recorder. I plan to have the NVR in the side attic out of the way, so I need a power socket in there.

The last few days I've been doing a bit of research about it. Trying to identify whether we have a ring or radial, regulations, legalities etc.

There are quite a few lighting cables up in the attic. After some research I was tempted to tap in to those initially, using a 5A fused spur unit, and adding a 5A 3-pin plug to the recorder, but gather that's pretty badly frowned upon. So I'm trying to do it properly.

Upstairs is just two rooms. In room one, there's a surface-mounted double socket with a single power cable going to it, and we also have the entrance to the side attic here. In room two, there's a flush fitted double socket with two cables, and a surface mounted double socket on the opposing wall, again with two cables. For a total of three sockets upstairs.

If relevant, we have a standalone RCD which, when tested by the button, cuts the power to the whole house. The fuse box is an old style Wylex with rewireable fuses. The fuse labelled "Upstairs Sockets" isolates only the three sockets I just mentioned when it is pulled. It's on a 30A fuse with 2.5mm T&E to the sockets in room 2 that have two cables going to them. (I forgot to pay attention to the cable size going in to the socket of room 1 but can check tomorrow).

Please correct me if I might be wrong, but is it reasonable to assume there is a ring in room two. Due to the fact there are two cables in and out of both sockets, and isolating all of these cables at one or both of the sockets still results in live electric to both. If it was a radial, and I isolated the cables in one, it would completely cut off the other?

I think the socket in room one (that only has one cable to it) might be a radial. It still works when both of the sockets in room two have their wires isolated, and it also happens to be more or less directly over the cupboard under the stairs where the fusebox is. He might have done a one socket radial direct to the fusebox. Or is that technically called a spur? I'm not sure. But there's a chance it could be a spur off the ring (using a junction box hidden somewhere), right? So I can't be confident spurring off of it?

When I crawl in the side attic, I can see under the floor of room two (but not room 1). I could get a cable to where the pattress is using rods. My plan is or was to use 2.5mm T+E, tacked along the side of the attic, laid under the floor and connected as a spur to a socket in room two.

I had a look today and saw this in the socket that I was planning to spur from.

DIY Check: Adding a socket to the attic - spurring decisions! {filename} | ElectriciansForums.net


It appears to be two cables, disconnected and left there. That could be my route to get my cable in, if I remove those cables, but they seem stuck tight. Does anyone know why they are likely to have been just left there? (It's not live, I did check!). Any ideas why they are so tight and can't be pushed in or out? Can I run my 2.5mm in through here? Would you?

Can anyone see a problem with what I'm doing so far?

If I wanted to reduce the difficulty, I guess I could change the surface double socket in room 1 to a 13A FCU, and then run two double sockets off that, one in the room and one in the attic, but that would mean running the cables in conduit so it would be visible.

Advice appreciated

DIY Check: Adding a socket to the attic - spurring decisions! 20180126_162744 - EletriciansForums.net
 
It is likely those chopped off cables are a redundant system which is no longer in use so yes you could use that route. If you can cut the other end close to it and pull one wire out at a time you may be able to remove them and fit a new cable, as to whether it is a ring final circuit only a test will confirm this.
 
If you have access directly under that socket in the picture,cut them off below,strip and tie the new on,it will likely pull up through
 
Thank you for the replies.

I've had no luck getting the old cable out of the way. It wouldn't pull out, and trying to push it down and out of the way hasn't helped either. Kind of wedged down there now.

It's a laminate floor in this room - the skirting would have to come off to remove the laminate to get at the floorboards. I'm a bit nervous of damaging her wallpaper etc during this process.

I know this is more of a DIY skills question than an electrical one, but is there any way you can see that I can still do this without getting the skirting off or the floor up?

I have line of sight to under the socket, but from 2 and a half meters away in the attic. All I have to do is get my cable with a magnet stuck on the end down there, then I can pull it through using rods.

Any ideas?
 
Cut/slit the wallpaper with a knife
Drill a hole from above the skirting to under the floor
Get yourself a fish wire(make a eye to fix the cable) send it down and along the joist(it may be fiddly but if you can see to under the socket it should fish very easily)
Tie the cable on,pull it through,if it gets stuck,have someone to shake the cable as you pull
Fit into socket box and patch up the chase which I forget to mention,then stick the wallpaper back
 

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