Do you have to become Part P registered to certify work?

[Bear2016]

Hi

I was wondering if someone could offer some advice?

The business is doing a lot of kitchen and bathrooms and every so often they need a new cooker circuit or extractor fan, FCU for a standalone oven that sort of thing. At present I wire it in test it and then a lad I know comes and test it and signs it off for me but this has become a pain as I have to wait for him and his work load is increasing as is mine.

I've spoken to NAPIT and they have said I can become Part P registered however I have no intention of doing full rewires or changing CU and it seems like a lot of cost and work for something simple like adding a cooker or oven to a CU. If the CU needed upgrading I'd sub it out to an electrician as I just don't have time to do that sort of thing with multiple projects on the go.

Is this really the only way to be able to certify a new circuit apart from BRegs? NAPIT were going on about 3 phase and commercial stuff and that I could change CU and do rewires and I just could not get it through to them that is not what my business does.

Do all kitchen & bathroom fitters become Part P to wire in a circuit?

Many thanks

 

[Pete999]

Hi

I was wondering if someone could offer some advice?

The business is doing a lot of kitchen and bathrooms and every so often they need a new cooker circuit or extractor fan, FCU for a standalone oven that sort of thing. At present I wire it in test it and then a lad I know comes and test it and signs it off for me but this has become a pain as I have to wait for him and his work load is increasing as is mine.

I've spoken to NAPIT and they have said I can become Part P registered however I have no intention of doing full rewires or changing CU and it seems like a lot of cost and work for something simple like adding a cooker or oven to a CU. If the CU needed upgrading I'd sub it out to an electrician as I just don't have time to do that sort of thing with multiple projects on the go.

Is this really the only way to be able to certify a new circuit apart from BRegs? NAPIT were going on about 3 phase and commercial stuff and that I could change CU and do rewires and I just could not get it through to them that is not what my business does.

Do all kitchen & bathroom fitters become Part P to wire in a circuit?

Many thanks

Oh my

 

[The Ghost]

The shortest and no worry way is to use an electrician who is in a CPS scheme. The complications legally and otherwise are too much to go into but trust me when I say it is better to do this. In this way you will avoid any liability for defective electrical work. It may be a pain but it is better to do it properly in the first place than deal with the fallout if it goes wrong. There is lot more then just part p for installing a circuit, not to mention the expensive test gear you need apart from a level 3 electrical qualification.

 

[Strima]

Does your insurance cover you for electrical work?

 

[telectrix]

as said above. ^^^^^^.you can certify your work, no problem, but you can't notify it unless you are in a scam such as napit. niceic, elecsa etc. part pee is a joke. a Electrical Trainee wetbehind the ears with little or no practical experience can join a scam and be registered with part pee. but a qualified spark with 20+ years on the tools is penalised for not wanting to have to pay to work.

 

[Cadgey123]

Hi

I was wondering if someone could offer some advice?

The business is doing a lot of kitchen and bathrooms and every so often they need a new cooker circuit or extractor fan, FCU for a standalone oven that sort of thing. At present I wire it in test it and then a lad I know comes and test it and signs it off for me but this has become a pain as I have to wait for him and his work load is increasing as is mine.

I've spoken to NAPIT and they have said I can become Part P registered however I have no intention of doing full rewires or changing CU and it seems like a lot of cost and work for something simple like adding a cooker or oven to a CU. If the CU needed upgrading I'd sub it out to an electrician as I just don't have time to do that sort of thing with multiple projects on the go.

Is this really the only way to be able to certify a new circuit apart from BRegs? NAPIT were going on about 3 phase and commercial stuff and that I could change CU and do rewires and I just could not get it through to them that is not what my business does.

Do all kitchen & bathroom fitters become Part P to wire in a circuit?

Many thanks

Sounds like you have been bodging and old mate down the pub is taking 100 for the cert each time

 

[Octopus]

10 out of 10 for asking the question .... there are many kitchen and bathroom fitters around who don't give a monkeys about any building regs ..... So this means, especially in kitchens that Kev the botch artist leaves a trail of mess and when people are spending vast amounts on their refits, not doing the electrics properly is such a poor approach

So if you have the competence, the qualifications and the necessary test equipment etc you should consider it.

Stroma only charge £240 + VAT per year - so not too much.

BUT why don't you get a decent spark involved so that when you need them, they do ALL the electrics .......... anyone asking me to sign off "a n others" work don't get a yes from me.

 

[Bear2016]

The shortest and no worry way is to use an electrician who is in a CPS scheme. The complications legally and otherwise are too much to go into but trust me when I say it is better to do this. In this way you will avoid any liability for defective electrical work. It may be a pain but it is better to do it properly in the first place than deal with the fallout if it goes wrong. There is lot more then just part p for installing a circuit, not to mention the expensive test gear you need apart from a level 3 electrical qualification.

I have a Megger MFT1721 that I bought when I did my electrical training courses

 

[Bear2016]

Does your insurance cover you for electrical work?

Yes it covers me for property renovation plumbing, bathrooms, kitchens, electrical and for sub contractors ;-)

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

anyone asking me to sign off "a n others" work don't get a yes from me.

This day and age of accountability and blame when the proverbial hits the fan its a risk putting your name to anything... when all this tower fire fallout happens accountability will go in to overkill with record keeping and risk assessments aplenty

 

[Bear2016]

Sounds like you have been bodging and old mate down the pub is taking 100 for the cert each time

Why bodging it? I have the qualifications and experience I calculate the diversity I choose the right cables I comply to the regs, I use the correct tables for the appropriate way it is mounted reducing the amps for the cables for the way it is fitted/depth/insulation, I check continuity, insulation resistance. This is all then rechecked and more when my mate signs it off. Is that bodging it?

 

[Bear2016]

10 out of 10 for asking the question .... there are many kitchen and bathroom fitters around who don't give a monkeys about any building regs ..... So this means, especially in kitchens that Kev the botch artist leaves a trail of mess and when people are spending vast amounts on their refits, not doing the electrics properly is such a poor approach

So if you have the competence, the qualifications and the necessary test equipment etc you should consider it.

Stroma only charge £240 + VAT per year - so not too much.

BUT why don't you get a decent spark involved so that when you need them, they do ALL the electrics .......... anyone asking me to sign off "a n others" work don't get a yes from me.

Thanks did not think of Stroma. The problem is my mate would do the work but chasing one cable for a cooker when it takes 1/2 an hour to do holds up the tiler who is waiting for the plasterer to finish, who is waiting for a sparkie to turn up and chase and wire one circuit.

When you have multiple jobs on the go its not always practical to have a subcontractor as I did have a spark but if he was booked in to do a quick circuit and got a full days work it would fall by the wayside and hold up my projects and with subbies waiting to get started it did not work well.

Guess the way forward is to get registered

Thanks to everyone for the advice

 

[The Ghost]

Sorry did not realise you had qualies etc. So yeh get part P and BS7671 when the 18th comes out. Then pay for scam scheme I mean. Then you are good to go. I am with Stroma they are thorough on the assesment. If you decide to bite the bullet get back to us for info on the assessment. Good luck.

 

[Bear2016]

This day and age of accountability and blame when the proverbial hits the fan its a risk putting your name to anything... when all this tower fire fallout happens accountability will go in to overkill with record keeping and risk assessments aplenty

I worked in the offshore industry for over 20 years and everything is RA, TBT, you can't fart without someone signing it off. I ran a team of 30 guys and they would be pressure testing at 4000bar running gear off 100kVA generators. Every morning would be a TBT go through what was happening and it was strict, recorded and regimented.

When I left and started up my own business I could not believe how relaxed everything was in the domestic world. It was a real eye opener! But no trade seemed to accept any responsibility for the work they under took, turn up have a cuppa, mobile, smoke, cuppa and then a moan about the weather! All I can say is after getting through loads of subcontractors I have a good bunch and they work how I want them to. Might cost me more then the going rate but I know they are doing it right.

As part of a trusted trader scheme I have to keep the records of each job and do my own RA for any out of the ordinary tasks again time consuming but its about keeping the guys safe and covering your a55.

 

[Bear2016]

Sorry did not realise you had qualies etc. So yeh get part P and BS7671 when the 18th comes out. Then pay for scam scheme I mean. Then you are good to go. I am with Stroma they are thorough on the assesment. If you decide to bite the bullet get back to us for info on the assessment. Good luck.

I've just emailed them I've done Part P couple of years ago but will need 2391 and I think the 18th is July 2018? Cheers for info will drop you a line when I've had a chat with them about the assessment.

 

[Des 56]

There was a defined scope system which was meant for people doing exactly what you describe,unfortunately for you,because you seem to be a very responsible person and company,I think the system is no longer available
Full scope registration is the way now I suppose

You could even directly employ someone with the necessary electrical qualifications, he could act as your qualifying supervisor for all the companies electrical tasks carried out by the workforce,even electricians like to broaden their skills on occasion

 

[Devonchris]

You don't have to be a member of a scheme or incur extortionate Building Control fees to sign off for part P.

See here

"The BCB can also use the IET/BCA alliance document. The Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET) and the Building Control Alliance (BCA), co-produced this document and it is downloadable free from the IET website, to gauge an individual’s level of electrical and Building Regulations competency. The BCB can then use this information to adjust building control charges accordingly, based around the level of risk an individual poses and how much work the BCB would incur to confirm this. Using this method, a BCB may accept a BS 7671 Electrical Installation Certificate (EIC) from an un-registered competent person."

And here

"I ET-BCA Guidance for Local Building Control Bodies: Electrical Installation Qualifications and Competence (within England and Wales)
The purpose of this new peer reviewed Guidance document is to outline the skills and competences required for an individual to carry out electrical installation work within dwellings in England and Wales. Specifically work that falls under the remit of Part P of the Building Regulations and referred to in Approved Document P.

An individual’s competence level or skills are afforded a risk rating, explanation and action outcome within the Guidance document. These may then be used to calculate if any additional work may need to be taken into account by a local Building Control Body (BCB)."

If you have the skills and the qualifications then there's no reason for a BC officer to visit, so the costs should be no more than the admin fee to issue the certificate. I would imagine £15 to £20.

If your only doing a few Part P jobs a year then this route has got to be cost -effective..

All the schemes do is take some of the admin, ie. The requirement to keep a register of competent persons, out of building controls hands.

When Part P was enacted there was no intention to give the scheme providers an absolute monopoly, But that's how it seems to have become, especially with the schemers perpetuating the myth that that is the only way to go.

I don't know how easy this route is to achieve but it can't be any more onerous than joining a scheme. I don't know anyone who has done it. Perhaps there are some on here who have? It doesn't seem to be a well know alternative.

I should add that this route appears to be just another scheme and there is nothing to stop you approaching BC personally with your certificates etc. And they may accept that you are a competent Person.

My quotes are from here if anyone wants to read more.

Building Regulations - Part P certification schemes - IET Electrical - http://electrical.------.org/building-regulations/part-p/certification-schemes.cfm

 

[Octopus]

Trust a trader..... Is it worth the expense?

 

[multimick]

Trust a trader..... Is it worth the expense?

i cover west lancs ,chorley and wigan councils i just send in my bs7671 certs downloaded from iet website stick them in a folder with my 2391 never had a failure yet.

 

[Midwest]

i cover west lancs ,chorley and wigan councils i just send in my bs7671 certs downloaded from iet website stick them in a folder with my 2391 never had a failure yet.

I've seen this (as mentioned by Devonchris) avenue described before. Is this the route you took multimick? Do your LBC make any charges?

I might just make an enquiry with my LBC via email, to see what the bobby more is. However, last time I phoned with a general building regs question, I was told I could not receive any guidance unless it related to a current planning/building reg approved application, or when that has just been submitted. So I can't see them too accommodating.