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Discuss Do you need an earth rod for an outbuilding? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Do i need an earth rod if i am running a supply to a shed/outbuilding ?

    The incoming supply to the house is tnc-s
     
  2. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    All due respect josh, this is one if not the most talked about subject and the answer is definitely in previous posts. All good information. Search the forum with the search button and then use the similar threads underneath the page as you scroll down.
    See you in a couple of weeks! (that's how many there are)
    You will find the answer but people will also pipe up. Cheers, Rob
     
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  3. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Search for Exporting PME on this forum and it gives you the various alternatives for supply to garage. TT system is one option and to me makes the most sense but there are other ways.
     
  4. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    Of course the top hit if you search "Exporting PME" will be this Topic :)
     
  5. Last plumber
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    Last plumber Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Read the ' garage earth ' thread, that's still ongoing kind of !
    If you spoke to 50 sparks, 25 will tell you one thing and the other 25 will tell you the another.
    Then they'll argue amongst themselves a while whilst you have a brew.
     
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  6. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
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  7. bigspark17
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    bigspark17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    wales
    So much more info required josh!
     
  8. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    Don't forget Josh there often isn't a right answer. The regulations often don't prescribe exact methods. They detail what you must do and what you mustn't do. But it also states that you can use alternative solutions as long as they provide equivalent or better safety to the suggested solutions.
    As long as you aren't breaching a regulation (or doing so without a supported method to demonstrate your approach is safer, better etc) then the finer detail is just about choice and preference.
    The best you can do is gather all the views. Check the regs yourself and come to your own solution. It won't be the solution everyone would chose but as long as its compliant and safe you are ok.
     
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  9. tony mc
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    tony mc Electrician's Arms

  10. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    seems like a bit of a grey area.
     
  11. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Well essentially normally DNO's dont like extending PME to garages, outhouses. That is why A TT system is used. For instance if you asked your DNO would they guarantee their PME in your garage at say 20m away see what they say. Might be a good starting point for how you are gonna go about it?
     
  12. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    But surely some large houses will have runs greater than 20 mtrs? I know of some houses fed from one single phase supply with very long runs internally.
    And for a garage using heavy SWA with its earth (larger than T&E CPC) surely you'd have as good if not better than a large house would have.
     
  13. bigspark17
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    bigspark17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    wales
    And maybe 5 would understand why their doing it which way!
     
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  14. bigspark17
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    bigspark17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    wales
    Not really a grey area atall, why dont you give us more info and tell us how you intend to do it and youll may get more advice.
     
  15. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    And the band played on.
     
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  16. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Fed from a spur on an existing ring in the house with a 2.5mm 3 core swa running to the shed (about 10m away from the house). Im going to put a small consumer unit inside the shed with an rcd in with a 6a mcb for a few light & a 16a mcb to feed 2 double sockets.

    The house is tnc-s.

    Josh
     
  17. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    So you will have a 16A for the sockets and a 13A at the FCU.
     
  18. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Fed from a spur on an existing ring in the house with a 2.5mm 3 core swa running to the shed (about 10m away from the house). Im going to put a small consumer unit inside the shed with an rcd in with a 6a mcb for a few light & a 16a mcb to feed 2 double sockets.

    The house is tnc-s.

    Josh
     
  19. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Fed from a spur on an existing ring inside the house with a 2.5mm 3core swa running to the shed (10m from the house). A small garage consumer unit in the shed with an rcd, a 6a mcb for 3 lights & a 16a mcb to feed 2 double sockets.

    The house is tnc-s

    Josh
     
  20. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Fed from a spur on an existing ring inside the house with a 2.5mm 3core swa running to the shed (10m from the house). A small garage consumer unit in the shed with an rcd, a 6a mcb for 3 lights & a 16a mcb to feed 2 double sockets.

    The house is tnc-s

    Josh
     
  21. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    10A for the sockets then!
     
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  22. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi Josh, I'm thinking this design may be affected by reg 434.2 and 434.2.1(i) which seems to limit length of an un-fused spur to 3m.
    I would add a new radial to CU. Cheers.
     
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  23. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Its not un-fused.
     
  24. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    So there's a a 13A FCU from the ring final that the SWA connects to?
     
  25. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    So it seems, probably doesn't need a CU just fit socket/s straight to it with a FCU for the lights.
     
  26. bigspark17
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    bigspark17 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    wales
    Are there any extranneous conductive parts in the shed.? What type of shed isit?
     
  27. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    That depends on if the circuit in the house is RCD protected. If not then a mini 'garage' CU may be preferable. But we do not know enough to guess. As posted several days ago.....:
     
  28. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Its not rcd protected in the house thats the reason for the cu in the shed.
    No extraneous conductive parts & the shed is made of wood.
     
  29. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    If the ring in the house isn't RCD protected then I'd make the FCU an RCD unit so that the SWA is RCD protected as so is the shed.

    TFP10WL TIMEGUARD, CONNECTION UNIT, RCD, FUSED, WHITE | Farnell element14 - http://uk.farnell.com/timeguard/tfp10wl/connection-unit-rcd-fused-white/dp/1642925?

    A small CU in the summer house with a 10A for the sockets and a 6A for lights would then be ok.

    That then opens the question of: Should the shed CU be metal...?

    If remote from the house and not part of the habitation then possibly no but as its wood its flammable.
     
  30. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Would an earth rod be needed ?
     
  31. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
     
  32. Josh95
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    Josh95 EF Member

    Location:
    Birmingham
    Yes thats correct.
     
  33. Taylortwocities
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    Taylortwocities Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Ok, I would put garage RCD protected CU in shed. 16A radial for sockets. 6A for lights.
    Export earth from house.
     
  34. Last plumber
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    Last plumber Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Yes big spark. You're 100% right.
    The trouble is, all electricians give a very convincing argument for either method.
    So it's finding out which half of the discussion, those 5 belong to.
    Especially when this is this first time I have had to think through this particular issue.
    I wasn't trying to insult anyone.
     
  35. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    10A on skts as the FCU will have max 13A fuse.
     
  36. ETO
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    ETO Active EF Member

    Location:
    UK
    Have you put a low price in then realised to do it proper will be more expensive? :p
     
  37. happy chap
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    happy chap New EF Member

    Location:
    nottingham
     
  38. happy chap
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    happy chap New EF Member

    Location:
    nottingham
    Josh Josh Josh i have looked at your thread and have joined to reply to how unhelpful and belittling the support some people give. but others are there to help.
     
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