dol starter wiring 3 phase motor

[LlandrilloSpark]

Guys can anybody help with some dol starter wiring?, I'm not great at 3 phase motors

I'm wiring a bottle crusher , it came with a eaton mem 28ADS1X dol, it says 230v coil but the plug to the motor is 3phase and earth

The mem dol is knackered and the guy who gave it to my mate supplied a Crabtree motorpak 24MR again 230v coil

I've held in the contractor manually on the old eaton dol and the motor runs well, I'm after help with the Crabtree wiring as the terminals are different between the two starters

The eaton had a 17 and 18 for start which is a little clip on start button, the Crabtree just has 13 and 14

I can't work out how the 230v coil can be utilised without a Neutral

Can anybody help?!!

 

[Brightspark2]

Could you just change the coil for a 415v instead of 230v?...

 

[ayjay]

if u search theres a diagram on here somewhere or follow the diagram that comes with the starter?

 

[markythesparky]

how did the previous one work with 230v coil?

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Nail on the head mark, I think sold a duffer.
I think they just used it as an isolator
It starts phases connected just through a 3 pole rotary iso, not that I'd keep it that way

 

[markythesparky]

well it wont work if there's no 230v supply available. Why dont you change it for a 400v coil.

from experience Crabtree DOL's usually come as components and you have to wire them yourself with the aid of the diagrams supplied. infact most DOL's are not complete as you need to buy the specific overload for your motor. therefore by their very nature you need to wire in the start stop circuit. they should all come with diagrams.

 

[Guitarist]

There was a very dangerous practice many years ago of using the cpc as the neutral when only a 3-phase supply was available. I worked at an old Cannery many years ago, and all the old outbuildings used this method for lighting until we ran new cables in. Hopefully, that wasn't the case with your coil supply.
Maybe a small 400/230v transformer would do the trick if you want to keep the coil voltage at 230.

 

[Gage]

You could do a few tricks or you could just get the proper gear

 

[Knobhead]

Change the coil, cheapest option.

 

[Darkwood]

Guys can anybody help with some dol starter wiring?, I'm not great at 3 phase motors

I'm wiring a bottle crusher , it came with a eaton mem 28ADS1X dol, it says 230v coil but the plug to the motor is 3phase and earth


The mem dol is knackered and the guy who gave it to my mate supplied a Crabtree motorpak 24MR again 230v coil

I've held in the contractor manually on the old eaton dol and the motor runs well, I'm after help with the Crabtree wiring as the terminals are different between the two starters

The eaton had a 17 and 18 for start which is a little clip on start button, the Crabtree just has 13 and 14

I can't work out how the 230v coil can be utilised without a Neutral

Can anybody help?!!

Its highly likely the old set-up had a Neutral as you only say the plug to the motor is 3ph and earth or do you mean the supply to the dol has a 3ph and earth only?

Also unless you know it definately wont damage anything or put anyone at risk then and only then would i entertain the thought of manually pusing in a contactor... through your own admittance you have said 3ph isn't your field nor the controls from your questioning so in your position i wouldn't be pushing contactors in manually its a habit that could cost you dearly one day.

 

[Gage]

It's ok if you do it with your tongue.

 

[lister101]

You could always fit a transformer to drop 400V to 230V
Buy DIN Rail & Panel Mount Transformers Control panel transformer,63VA 2x115V Legrand 0 427 86 online from RS for next day delivery.

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Cheers lads
Story is this...it's a bottle crusher for a recycling firm run by my mate, he bought it on eBay for a song, not running as the DOL was smashed in, it's 3phase no neutral , the plug from the dol is 4pin no N, we only wanted to see if it worked , he does not want to spend loads on it, so I wired in a 4 pin socket from the DB just 3m away, plugged in, and nothing just as I thought would happen, when it comes to wiring the spare Crabtree DOL I only remember certain things but couldn't not figure how the 230v coil ever worked, my suspicion is that maybe once it was located near to a 5 conductor set up
In the end I had a old 3 pole rotary in the van, I put it straight into that at when you turn the isolator it fires up fine, I don't know if this will damage the motor eventually but I know it won't do the rotary any good so I won't be leaving it like that.
Cheers for the Input

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

Oh and I have no issues with 3 phase, done plenty, just not a motor expert, but after today I want to learn!

 

[plugsandsparks]

Apart from rotary not being very good at motor starting its the lack of overload that puts the motor at risk, I think i managed to get a chint DOL/oload for around £30, any coil you like, it was a bit delicate though..lol

 

[Deservices]

Cheapest option is just get a 415v coil, as it was without a neutral it's never worked. I take it you haven't got a neutral at your 3 phase DB?

 

[Darkwood]

Cheers lads
Story is this...it's a bottle crusher for a recycling firm run by my mate, he bought it on eBay for a song, not running as the DOL was smashed in, it's 3phase no neutral , the plug from the dol is 4pin no N, we only wanted to see if it worked , he does not want to spend loads on it, so I wired in a 4 pin socket from the DB just 3m away, plugged in, and nothing just as I thought would happen, when it comes to wiring the spare Crabtree DOL I only remember certain things but couldn't not figure how the 230v coil ever worked, my suspicion is that maybe once it was located near to a 5 conductor set up
In the end I had a old 3 pole rotary in the van, I put it straight into that at when you turn the isolator it fires up fine, I don't know if this will damage the motor eventually but I know it won't do the rotary any good so I won't be leaving it like that.
Cheers for the Input

Firstly this wont do as a set-up and if you mean rotary switch straight to motor then where is your motor overload protection ... also if you have a power failure then upon the supply coming back on your motor will start up without warning i suspect with the nature of the machine this is unacceptable, if you were so close to the board and only wanted to test it worked correctly with a 240v coil on the contactor then why didn't you rig a fly lead up to give you a Neutral to the coil?
Don't leave this set up running for the customer or you may be digging yourself a very big hole you cant get out of.

Lastly be very careful you don't fall into the trap of having the cart leading the horse, regardless of how much your mate is willing to spend it shouldn't mean you should compromise on regulation and safety, the cost of fitting a new DOL starter is what it is and if doing so is to much cost then he shouldn't have bought the machine in the first place, agree do a temp' rig up to test its worth spending the money on but don't choose this temp test as a cheaper solution ...also i assume without overload protection on your motor when you tested it you clamped the phases to check its loading as without doing so you cant assume its working ok.