domestic bathroom

[Sparky_Ben]

I dont really work in the domestic field so was just wanting to know a few things before starting a job,
bathroom downlighters, can these be mains voltage as long as RCD protected is that correct and also a fan isolator can this be situated up the the loft space, or does it have to be accessible around the bathroom area, as customer does not want another switch on the wall outside of the room,

 

[telectrix]

very briefly----downlighters. IPX4 if in zone 1 or zone 2. RCD --yes. isolator can be in loft. remember though mnost fans require 3A fusing, so you need to fuse the bathroom lights at 3A if fan is supplied from the light.

 

[Sparky_Ben]

right ok that clears a few things up. possibly a stupid question so would you fit a fused spur then the isolator, or change the breaker size? im thinking fuse spur and fuse it at 3A as circuit is the whole upstairs and customer wants 6 downlighters fitted,

 

[Ponty Massive]

Fuse the feed to the bathroom via a 3a spur, then continue to wire as normal. This way fan is covered by 3a. Perm live, S/W live and neutral to the 3-pole isolator then to your fan.

 

[Sparky_Ben]

okay that makes sense so in essence put the the bathroom on its own circuit protected by the fuse spur

 

[GLENNSPARK]

put it in the loft....as suggested here by all means Ben....but i would be thinking here about accessablility to it as well.....so are the homeowners elderly?.....and as tell says...special locations.........

 

[Ponty Massive]

okay that makes sense so in essence put the the bathroom on its own circuit protected by the fuse spur

Yep...

 

[Flyingsparks]

It can be a bit of sod to find out why the bathroom lights are no longer working when one of the GU10 lamps blows and takes out the 3A fuse in the spur unit, especially when buried in the loft somewhere !

 

[Guitarist]

Check if the fan actually needs fusing down before worrying about where to put an FSU as many don't now. If you want to isolate it for mechanical maintenance then a 3-pole pull cord switch can be installed in the room itself, technically anywhere as long as the ceiling is over 2.25m high, though common sense to place it outside zone 1 horizontally.

 

[Dave 85]

I gotta say, I never use a 3amp fuse, as far as I know, most fans I use dont require it, and as far as I'm concerned a good elec wholesaler shouldn't be flogging ones that do. The tried and tested way is 6amp MCB through a 3 pole iso, I've never seen it done different. Elecsa, I have to say, did tell me a story about the guy who got 'hung' for installing a fan with no fuse (that specifically required one) that subsequently caught fire, so basically, check the fan b4 you buy it.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well this is about checking/reading manufacturers instructions before fitting now isn`t it.....

 

[Dave 85]

Indeed it is, but we as men, seem to have a reputation for generally treating instuctions with contempt. Just saying...

 

[ample current]

very briefly----downlighters. IPX4 if in zone 1 or zone 2. RCD --yes. isolator can be in loft. remember though mnost fans require 3A fusing, so you need to fuse the bathroom lights at 3A if fan is supplied from the light.

Do the downlights need to be IPX4 even if the ceiling is above 2.25m?

 

[telectrix]

Do the downlights need to be IPX4 even if the ceiling is above 2.25m?


NO. butit's better to use IP rated simply because of moisture. where possible, i feed the fan independent of the light. that way the customer has the choice of whether to switch the fan on or not, and it eliminates the need to fuse the bathroom light down if the fan requires a 3A fuse.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I gotta say, I never use a 3amp fuse, as far as I know, most fans I use dont require it, and as far as I'm concerned a good elec wholesaler shouldn't be flogging ones that do. The tried and tested way is 6amp MCB through a 3 pole iso, I've never seen it done different. Elecsa, I have to say, did tell me a story about the guy who got 'hung' for installing a fan with no fuse (that specifically required one) that subsequently caught fire, so basically, check the fan b4 you buy it.

I do love that story Dave. How a fan caught fire because it never had a 3amp cartridge fuse protecting it.

After all logical that something that is 3 amp will disconnected twice as quickly as a 6amp protection device and be much safer.

I'd give my pension if that fan was on a 6amp lighting MCB, the 3amp cartridge fuse would trip faster than the breaker on either overload or fault.

If this actually happen, I bet there was more to it than is always offered, such as the fan was fed from a local RFC and not spurred down or from perhaps BS 3036 CU and the 5amp rewirable had a bit of 2.5 wired into it.

 

[telectrix]

The word scapegoat comes into mind here, malc.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I think we have this harmonization BS to thank for all these weird and wonderful "Manufacturers Instructions"

Now that the UK manufacture bugger all, and appliances are hocked around the world by our Asian cousins, the instructions are a one size fit all, and don't take into account local standards.

What IMO as made it worse is the IET including this one size fit all adherence to it in the Regulations. So we now have the ludicrous situation of RCD protection to circuits, a lighting circuit 6amp at a CU and then if you have a fan, one room on that circuit having it's own protection device to adhere to an instruction written by some Chinese secretary in Shang-hi

 

[telectrix]

some Chinese secretary in Shang-hi

sure that wasn't engineer54? LOL. ( heads down, wait for the flak)

 

[Guitarist]

Always check that the fan doesn't need to be connected to the lighting circuit with overrun facility for the purpose of building regs (ie, if the room has no window) before installing it on its own circuit. Obvious, I know, but worth bearing in mind.

 

[telectrix]

but do building regs. state that the fan has to be fed from the light? overrun, yes, but IMO can still be switched independently of the light.