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  1. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Right people, you have done all the courses, have all the cards required to get you onto sites, including the pseudo qualification "Part P". you're an Electrician.
    You start out on your own, but the only work available to you at the moment is house bashing and the odd Domestic job, suddenly an opportunity of a years work refurbishing offices comes your way.
    Do you think nah I'm a Domestic Electrician can't be doing that sort of work (forget the Domestic installer at the moment) you're an Electrician be proud of it. Because you are more skilled at Domestic stuff do you go for this or leave to others because you class yourself as a Domestic Electrician? even though your best mate who you trained with is now working on the office refurbishment and loving it, the same could be said about Industrial work.
    I guess what I'm saying is what do you class yourself as Domestic, Commercial or Industrial, in fact should you be classifying yourself at all, you have all the relevant tickets,cards qualifications etc.
    I was lucky I worked for a contractor that did all 3 of these installations so I had a well rounded Apprenticeship, so come on Guys and Gals you're Electricians don't think that just because you are more experience at 1 or the other that's all you should be doing, easier said than done you may say, but you're ELECTRICIANS be proud of that fact. Sorry for the rant. What do you think?
     
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  2. LankyWill
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    LankyWill Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northants
    Spot on Pete, far to many electricians put themselves in specific environments which limits their potential. I did house bashing for my apprenticeship for four years, didn't stop me going on a grain plant installation and trying my hand at PLC's and Distribution when i left. Its all the same at the end of the day, why limit yourself to the easy stuff its more enjoyable and rewarding learning new things. Im on a commercial project at the moment getting my head around smart lighting and BMS controls, its all fun and games plus it broadens your skillset.
     
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  3. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    I must admit I tend to differentiate between industrial/commercial/domestic. Surely its like a surgeon you have to specialise in an area to become the best in that field. I have never got involved in industrial and admit secretly envying those who have/do. But unless (at my age) I wanted to learn all over new techniques and application of the science etc. I think I will have to play to my strengths and keep doing what I have always done domestic/light commercial. But then I don't suppose you meant old dogs like me, you mean the up and coming sparks. But I like the point that one should not limit oneself, why didn't you tell me this forty years ago?
     
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  4. Billsays
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    Billsays Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    I like this quote about being a specialist.......


    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly........... Specialization is for insects."

    — Robert Heinlein
     
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  5. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Never heard of Robert Heinlein but he sounds like a bit of a plonka to me.
     
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  6. Billsays
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    Billsays Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Have a little google, broaden your horizons. :thumbsup:
     
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  7. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Yeh, I can do that.
     
  8. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Just did, not convinced.
     
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  9. Lucien Nunes
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    Lucien Nunes Mercury Arc Rectifier Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    London
    I agree it would be good for more sparks to have at least a general understanding of a wider range of work, as some 'sparks' cannot see beyond the end of the next roll of T+E. They miss out on all sorts of useful techniques because they are not popular in run-of-the-mill work in their sector. But it's such a diverse field now that there has to be some specialisation, you simply can't be good at all of it.

    I've stuck to particular areas where I can hone my crafts skills and technical knowledge, or that tie in with other things I like. There is a strong element of cherry-picking, I'll wire a theatre but not a supermarket, service an old machine panel but not a new one, dress MI round a cathedral roof but not SWA around a factory. So I've pigeon-holed myself as part-industrial, part-commercial, zero domestic. Not a clue how to tackle a house efficiently, it would take me weeks!
     
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  10. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Depends if you work for yourself (i.e. just you) or with others or companies. It depends on what comes your way.
     
  11. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    Being a mature learner I've had to seek the experience which would normally be fitted into an apprenticeship, if they are lucky, so after 2 or so years of domestic rewires, fault finding and maintenance and needing more scope for my NVQ, I put myself on the agencies and initially worked for an electrical contractor doing a bit of everything. I was pleased that I could prove myself on the domestic side working sometimes on my own but also on commercial and MOD stuff. I then moved to a big commercial refit in a 16 storey building in Bristol and I'm getting to do lots and lots of much needed containment, have been wiring fan motors and glanding SWA and control cables.
    Basically I have sought my experience because I can, no one can stop me trying something new and it can only be seen as a positive.
    Where I'll end up I have no idea, I haven't tried industrial and I can imagine it gets a bit stressy when machines go down but commercial has a good teamwork and domestic has working on my own, which I like.
    Watch this space . . . .
     
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  12. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    obviously an american plonker who's idea of multi-tasking is to be able to read a newspaper at the same time as having a dump.
     
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  13. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
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    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    pitch manure. that's about the level of heinlein's spouted garbage.
     
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  14. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I quite like Hitchen, Christopher not Peter.
     
  15. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    I have worked on industrial/domestic/test and inspection,I think of myself as being very unfortunate
    If only I had picked the correct 6 numbers I could have said goodbye to the whole lot of it long ago and specialised in leisure :)
     
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  16. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I agree Des whole heartedly. I retired I thought I could start this game up again. I don't know what I was thinking. :(
     
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  17. sparksburnout
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    sparksburnout Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Notts
    Nothing wrong with Peter Hitchen, he's a great Brexiteer.
     
  18. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    I know what you mean,my retirement still revolves around work :(
     
  19. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Unlike his brother (God rest his sole), Peter H talks complete pitch manure.
     
  20. Billsays
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    Billsays Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Lol..... so you went from not knowing about him in one post to being an expert in the next! Very good :joycat::joycat:

    Its not a tattoo down my back! It's just a quote I like when people talk about being specialist, especially in the field of Fire Alarms and IT.
     
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  21. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Can we get back on track with this thread?, it seems to have drifted somewhat.
     
  22. Billsays
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    Billsays Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Your absolutely right Pete......back on topic, in my opinion it's best to be a good all rounder but as with all things in life you don't always get a say in where you end up.
     
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  23. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Thanks.
     
  24. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I dunno, its good to talk; its all about the rich tapestry of life. Eventually it would of got back on track Pete :)
     
  25. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    don'tmention leisure in south wales, des. as a welsh leisure centre is 3 sheep tied to a lamp post. :eek::eek::eek:
     
  26. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Thought that was a night club Tel, or a dating agency. A thought, how come we can take the rise like this and everyone thinks it a good laugh, and no malice meant but make a joke about : a Pakistani, Indian, Hebrew, you get the picture and you get called a racist?
     
  27. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Probably due to the stiff British upper lip;


    (with Greek subtitles, to keep up with the multi-cultural theme)

    You've taken it off track now Pete :)
     
  28. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Don't as a rule do domestics, as I don't want to.
    Don't as a rule do shop fitting either.
    Prefer industrial.
    Doing shop fitting at the mo, boss wants me to snip off the CPC in the cable we're using for an RFC, and instead use a separate 'clean earth' cable that is coloured white (no sleeping).
    Though it's an RFC, we can run the earth as a radial, as it's 6mm2 and the RFC conductors are only 2.5mm2.
     
  29. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    Wouldn't that take the CPC safety from the cable you are running - what are the rules on this @spinlondon@spinlondon? Surely it can be paralleled for safety AND have the function of the clean earth?
     
  30. spinlondon
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    spinlondon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Harlow Essex
    Not sure what makes an earth clean.
    Heard people speak of them, but no one has ever explained it.
    Regulations require all conductors of a ring, to be run as a ring.
    Regulations allow the colour cream (or off white) to be used as a functional Earth (i.e. something connected to Earth, but is not a protective conductor), protective conductors must be green/yellow.
     
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  31. freddo
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    freddo Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Devon
    With clean earth use clean earth sockets, the cpc should be connected to all the back boxes to the dirty terminal, this is provided for safety of the installation/containment etc. The separate clean earth connects to the clean earth terminal on the socket which only goes to the sockets earth contacts. Without connecting to any parallel earth paths the clean earth won't have any circulating currents flowing which can cause interference to sensitive equipment. Well that's my understanding anyway.
     
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  32. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Which are all connected together when the faceplate is screwed to the back box
    How to Create a clean Earth connection for Power Conditioning - http://www.aelgroup.co.uk/faq/faq008.php
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  33. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    cheshire/staffordshire
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    Telectrix
  34. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Well, not sure either Tel, but when I was asked to provide a clean earth, it was usually a requirement to provide a a completely separate earth to the particular D/D or C/U that was supplying that circuit, in other words , say in an office, say on the 4th floor you would need to run your main earth right back to the intake position, where it would then be connected to a black box, never did find out what was inside of this box other than it was some sort of filter. What the OPs Boss is suggesting sounds to me like he is trying to provide a functional earth for some reason, which he hasn't said. That's my two Penny's worth. Edit Addition as an aside the sockets we used on "clean earth installs" were non standard 13 amp switch sockets (MK) witch to all intents and purposes were normal sockets with a non standard earth pin aperture, could be rotated through 90 deg or be an odd shape.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  35. freddo
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    freddo Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Devon
    A clean earth socket has 2 separate earth terminals one for the earth pins one for the screw lugs. The circuit should have no continuity between the clean earth and safety earth (except when the circuit is connected to the supply. The sockets are available as both standard and non standard 13A configurations. I have a standard one here somewhere but can't find it right now. Cutting the CPCs out is wrong, you'd just as well use them and not bother with the separate earth wires...
    [​IMG]

    The g/y link is removed for clean earth, the CPCs go in the terminal with the round earth symbol, the clean earth wires go in the terminal with the half round symbol.

    I do most types of installations, domestic, commercial, industrial, installation, repairs and fault finding on installations and huge industrial machines. It's great fun most of the time, I wouldn't want to do domestic all the time, far too boring. You don't get to put in steel conduit, pyro and large armoured cables there. The main area I know nothing at all about and have no experience of is wiring in hazardous areas.
     
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  36. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Well I never knew that, I think I have heard of them. Has that anything to do with high integrity earth sockets? Fascinating must find out more it might help with noise and various problems encountered in offices and the like. Thanks @freddo@freddo for the info. Oh and @Pete999@Pete999 for the link to more fascinating info.
     
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  37. freddo
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    freddo Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Devon
    High integrity earthing is different and deals with circuits with likely high protective conductor currents and ensuring they end up to earth so you don't get a tingle when touching exposed conductive parts under a single fault condition.

    This can be done is using dual earth terminal sockets, the idea being that if one of the earth terminals is loose there is still a good earth connection in the other terminal. For a radial circuit a separate earth wire has to be run from the last socket back to the distribution board (steel conduit connected to the last socket can be used instead of a separate wire), again both the separate wire and CPC (or both CPCs from a ring final) should be in separate terminals in the DBs earth bar. Any joint boxes used will also need separate terminals for each conductor for the same reason.

    Where 2 radial final circuits which have identical circuit protection and live and earth conductor CSAs and fed from the same DB are installed, an earth link can be provided from the last socket on one circuit to the last socket on the other.

    There are other methods that can be used but these often require a larger CPC or the use of expensive monitoring equipment.
     
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  38. electric al
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    electric al Regular EF Member

    Location:
    sheffield
     
  39. electric al
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    electric al Regular EF Member

    Location:
    sheffield
    Hey Pete , did you hear the one about the Hebrew the hittite and the byzantine that walked into a bar ?
     
  40. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    Don't fall for it Pete, "they" wouldn't walk into a bar!
     
  41. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Exactly why I didn't answer
     
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  42. electric al
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    electric al Regular EF Member

    Location:
    sheffield
    Truth is I can't tell you it anyway - turns out it's not kosher but they must have been very careless because the bar turned out to be an iron bar .
     
  43. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    I can hear the lack of profanity now!
     
  44. Phil Thompson
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    Phil Thompson Let us light up your life! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Newtownards
    Business Name:
    Brite Spark Electrical
    Thankfully I got a wide variety of experience in my apprenticeship. Mainly domestic and commercial. With a wee bit of industrial.

    I try and stick with that now, very rare to do industrial, though there wouldn't be a lot of that type of work around here.

    I know some guys and all they know is basic house bashing, and quite often they don't even attempt to gain any further knowledge & experience.

    Many of the guys I went to college no longer do electrical. The majority having worked as intruder and fire alarm guys and the market isn't really there for the more specialised stuff.

    I like the day to day and week to week variety, not just the same thing repeatedly.
     
  45. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    I can see your point Phil, but my initial gripe was how can you be just one type of Electrician? if you're an Electrician that's what you are.
     
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