Don't you just love the SNP......

[malcolmsanford]

I'm not young, that's the first mistake you've made - the second mistake is clear to anyone who reads beyond the media headlines.

Googling for facts that suit your own argument appears to be the way of things on here, that's just intellectually lazy - but it'll be the reason why so many have no in depth knowledge of this topic, as is being continually illustrated by nearly every little Englander comment here.

I'm being lazy here, but rather than just believing the populist media headlines, try reading a little deeper, you might be rather surprised.

Do you actually believe what you write son.

So every fact from any source that does not fall into line with the gospel according to Salmond is a false fact. Even though that googled fact was taken from a Scottish Government statistic.

Well they do say in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king.

 

[sean_ork]

sean_ork
You keep on believing what you read, well done keep the movement going, but don't come running back for handouts from Westminster when it all goes pear shaped.
Must admit I like your loyalty to Lady Nicola and the Knights around the Holyrood Table, you are a credit to the MINORITY in Scotland, keep up the good work Nicola would be proud of you.

Is making so many incorrect assumptions a trade defect ?

 

[sean_ork]

Do you actually believe what you write son.

So every fact from any source that does not fall into line with the gospel according to Salmond is a false fact. Even though that googled fact was taken from a Scottish Government statistic.

Can't you see in the comments you've posted that you yourself are entirely guilty of that which you accuse those who have an opposing view to yours ?

All you've done is to expose how little you really know on this topic, given your location and reliance on search engines for suitable "facts" you can be excused.

 

[MikeL1]

So what incorrect assumptions are you ion about, tell me the facts, real facts not the blind SNP ones that have completely divided Scotland.
I know, I live here. An outsider looking in with no political bias but I do object to the drivel that come out of Holyrood everyday.
Propaganda at its best.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Then Sean as the erudite person you are supply me a fact that said that UK taxpayers did not give money back via government funding to Scotland, and that stat for 2012-13 is flase....that is all I ask

Google it, pull it out of a hat, get mystic Meg to furnish it.....just a recorded fact that states what I ask.is that too much to ask?

If you can then fair enough I will concede the fact

 

[sean_ork]

So what incorrect assumptions are you ion about, tell me the facts, real facts not the blind SNP ones that have completely divided Scotland.
I know, I live here. An outsider looking in with no political bias but I do object to the drivel that come out of Holyrood everyday.
Propaganda at its best.

You've assumed I'm loyal the the SNP - that's incorrect
You've assumed I'm a loyal supporter of "lady Nicola" (your words) - that's incorrect
You've assumed that I beleive everything I read - that's absolutely and utterly incorrect
You've assumed I'm a "credit to the minority" again your words, and again that's just an opiniated assumption, who knows if thats right or wrong.

However I do agree with you regarding the output of Holyrood.

 

[sean_ork]

Then Sean as the erudite person you are supply me a fact that said that UK taxpayers did not give money back via government funding to Scotland, and that stat for 2012-13 is flase....that is all I ask

Google it, pull it out of a hat, get mystic Meg to furnish it.....just a recorded fact that states what I ask.is that too much to ask?

If you can then fair enough I will concede the fact

There's no need for me to use Google - there's also no need for me to deny that Scotland receives funding from the UK tax pot via a formula contrived by the likes of Thatcher and Major, I recall it accounts for about 83% of our budget - but its our earnings that we are being handed back, to attempt to disguise that is mischievous. I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

Now, could you answer my very simple question in post #60 (this is the third time I've asked) the one in which you implied that a Scot wanted to be English.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Malcolm, here's a question that Google can't help you answer, I note you've opted to avoid it previously so I'll ask it again.

What line of logic were you using when you posted the below, specifically the last sentence ?



Just for the avoidance of doubt, I have never met a Scot who wants to be English - do you really beleive such a person exists ?

I never had to google this Sean old son.

There is a famous quote from the British number one tennis player about England and supporting any team that plays against them. Now I have heard most of these barbs from relatives and such and it is generally said in good nature. But you know that there is an undertone to it.

What most Scots people can't understand is why beating england or even out doing England means so much to them, but the reverse means absolutely nothing to the English. We basicaly couldn't care and certainly I have never heard an Englishman say I support any team that is playing Scotland, because it dosen't matter to us.

This dislike if you like is born out of many things I guess, but I think a lot of it is jealousy, surely even the Scots can't still harbour a grudge and hatred against the English because of Edward longshanks..............or can you? If they do then you are sadder than I thought.

No I think a lot of it is jealousy, my humble opine of course, and so that was why I quoted, tongue in cheek what I did. As I said my beautiful wife is Scottish, my daughters are half Scottish, my grand parents are scottish and so are large sections of my family. They are wonderful people and I love them all to bits.........

..........but unfortunately like everywhere there are the brain washed, who in Scotland think that if only we could free ourseleves of the yoke of the English Brigadon would make a reappearance

 

[UNG]

I think it is fair to say that when it comes to being divisive the population of Scotland is one of the world leaders in the field

The independence debate north of the border became so acrimonious in some families it split them apart, in some workplaces talking about it was banned is this what a supposedly reasoned debate is about or is it a bunch of hardline chip on shoulder activists who have to get their own way at any cost

All these comments about reading the wrong media, researching and using information from the wrong sources is ongoing whinge by a lot of posters on all forums. If you are one of those who makes the claim then post your reliable sources of information so they can be verified instead of hiding behind that wall that deflects any ones points while declaring yours as the gospel of truth

It is quite obvious that both sides of the independence debate were economic with the facts and reality of what would be delivered but that is what politics is all about sell someone a dream and if it falls short or fails find someone or something to blame for it

In terms of the independence balance sheet, it has radically changed in the last 15 months or so since the vote that is assuming all the spending figures are included and accounted for and not just the "Holyrood handout" from Westminster

The fact is Salmond / Sturgeon utopia was doomed the moment he was using the Pound Sterling as a currency as it's value is set by ........let me think..... yes The Bank of England now how independent would that be

 

[malcolmsanford]

There's no need for me to use Google - there's also no need for me to deny that Scotland receives funding from the UK tax pot via a formula contrived by the likes of Thatcher and Major, I recall it accounts for about 83% of our budget - but its our earnings that we are being handed back, to attempt to disguise that is mischievous. I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

Now, could you answer my very simple question in post #60 (this is the third time I've asked) the one in which you implied that a Scot wanted to be English.

So you don't have a fact thought so...............

Sean your mate asked for a fact where do the UK tax papyer subsidise Scotland, that I have given.

So you agree the UK tax payer subsidise Scotland?

 

[sean_ork]

Thank you for your explanation Malcolm, it very clearly illustrates your line of thinking.

I'm not sure I've got the patience or the capacity to argue with you, your ability to conflate a modern day tennis players teaseing with royalty from 700 years ago? is simply .....

I'm open to suggestions for what word to end that sentence with - but thanks for making me laugh.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Thank you for your explanation Malcolm, it very clearly illustrates your line of thinking.

I'm not sure I've got the patience or the capacity to argue with you, your ability to conflate a modern day tennis players teaseing with royalty from 700 years ago? is simply .....

I'm open to suggestions for what word to end that sentence with - but thanks for making me laugh.

The pleasure is all mine..........It still fills me with joy that the English are still giving to our Scottish friends

 

[sean_ork]

The pleasure is all mine..........It still fills me with joy that the English are still giving to our Scottish friends

So maybe in this post I'm resorting to using your tactics, here's a few articles to get your teeth into - I've included a picture as a hint as to why your populist headline understanding is misguided.

Enough of the Scottish subsidy myth - Scotland pays its way in the Union
https://fullfact.org/scotland/
Leaders: Myth of Scotland as subsidy junkie of the UK is scotched - The Scotsman

 

[UNG]

You've assumed I'm loyal the the SNP - that's incorrect
You've assumed I'm a loyal supporter of "lady Nicola" (your words) - that's incorrect
You've assumed that I beleive everything I read - that's absolutely and utterly incorrect
You've assumed I'm a "credit to the minority" again your words, and again that's just an opiniated assumption, who knows if thats right or wrong.

However I do agree with you regarding the output of Holyrood.

So what other political party supports independence in Scotland or are you one of these people who sits on the fence spoiling for an argument decrying the sources of information used by others while supplying no credible sources of your own

There's no need for me to use Google - there's also no need for me to deny that Scotland receives funding from the UK tax pot via a formula contrived by the likes of Thatcher and Major, I recall it accounts for about 83% of our budget - but its our earnings that we are being handed back, to attempt to disguise that is mischievous. I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

You will have to refresh my memory as I don't recall the Thatcher / Major formula for funding administrative devolution or are you referring to the Barnett Formula devised by the Labour treasury minister called Joel Barnett

I'm not going to resort to your googling facts tactic to make my point, all I can ask if that you read beyond the headlines - I've said it before, you would be surprised - we all know how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

So you have no facts to support your argument then, it appears that you are the one not researching the facts and are basing your argument that you read the facts below the headlines in your chosen media that may be biased to or biasing your view

All actual figures can be twisted in to a statistical analysis that can be presented in many different ways to suit every authors view point or aim that is a fact that you have to get behind to see the truth

I think you need to widen your reading and not limit it to the propaganda of the SNP

 

[malcolmsanford]

Granted in 2010-11 when those figures were published things were better, but my figures were more upto date, how far do you want to go back in time .........

Even the Scotsman cedes that the figures are not accurate

Not quite. Mr McWilliams has given the SNP some powerful material to serve a few aces. His figures purport to show not only that the public sector books balance in Scotland, but that Scotland, out of twelve nations and regions, has the fourth best set of public sector accounts in the UK.

These are, however, figures that are produced, not to present public sector accounts for an independent Scotland, but to show the intra-regional transfer of tax revenues within the UK and how these transfers support regional public spending. The figures cover the year 2010-11, for which there are as yet no official statistics on spending from either the Treasury or the Scottish Government.

Not a very good example Sean old son,but hey your getting there

 

[UNG]

So maybe in this post I'm resorting to using your tactics, here's a few articles to get your teeth into - I've included a picture as a hint as to why your populist headline understanding is misguided.

Enough of the Scottish subsidy myth - Scotland pays its way in the Union
https://fullfact.org/scotland/
Leaders: Myth of Scotland as subsidy junkie of the UK is scotched - The ScotsmanView attachment 31203

Is that really the best you can do, look how old these facts are can you find something more up to date to support your argument.

Are you sure the Scotsman is an unbiased source though

 

[sean_ork]

So what other political party supports independence in Scotland or are you one of these people who sits on the fence spoiling for an argument decrying the sources of information used by others while supplying no credible sources of your own

Actually no, a bit of independent thought is what I'm trying to encourage - someone previously commented that tax spending and the associated implications isnt rocket science - it certainly isn't, its far more complex than making things go bang.

I'm not going to attempt to Google up a killer "fact" to win the point, all I'm asking is for folks who don't have a full understanding, and those who form their opinions based on snapshot articles and headlines to do a little reading around the topic, in much the same manner as you would expect to do to be able to fully master your trade.

 

[sean_ork]

You will have to refresh my memory as I don't recall the Thatcher / Major formula for funding administrative devolution or are you referring to the Barnett Formula devised by the Labour treasury minister called Joel Barnet

again, I encourage you to do a little reading around the topic - you'll likely discover who realised what a mistake had been made and who was the government primarily responsible for its implementation.

 

[sean_ork]

I wonder why no one moans about the spending/head in Wales or NI ?

 

[UNG]

again, I encourage you to do a little reading around the topic - you'll likely discover who realised what a mistake had been made and who was the government primarily responsible for its implementation.

So you are the only person that has read up on this do me a favour wake up and smell the coffee. Yes I have read up on it and your response is just so typicial . You are being very selective in your replies and this IMO reflects badly on your argument

The biggest mistake by Westminster was not giving all the UK a vote on Scottish independence,