Doorbell Wiring - Ring Pro and Honeywell

[Khuz360]

Hi All

Apologies if this is not in the right forum or if I've joined the forum when I'm not supposed to as I'm not an electrician just an avid tinkerer.

With that said. I'm planning to wire in a new doorbell system. I ripped out the old wired system and switched to wireless which was less than an optimal solution. For that reason I'm planning to go back to a wired system and if possible upgrade to a ring pro system.

The new system will be based on the Honeywell DW915s wired and wireless chime thing which I believe is a wired chime which doubles up as a wireless extender which allows another compatible chime to be paired to it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). The initial plan is to use this chime as a wired chime, powered via the batteries so it will be wired direct to the bell push. The reason being was firstly that's what the old system was like and secondly to wire it to the main would likely require a new consumer unit because the old one is the old style wire fuse type which I will be updating at some point but not any time soon.

The problem with this initial plan is that the run of cable from the bell push to the position I want the chime to be placed is about 30m, accounting for tidying the cable into the edges etc. From my research online 0.5mm bell wire seems to be inappropriate for this kind of distance and impact performance. Having looked online, I can't seem to find thicker solid 2 core wire, everything seems to be stranded cores. The solution I've come across is to use 1mm 2 core FP200 fire alarm cable which is 4x times the price of bell wire and also has an earth core which would be redundant. What could I do to solve this issue.

The second part of the new system will be to install the Ring Pro which will be done when the consumer unit is updated. I know the Ring Pro requires a mains power and comes with a transformer. Based on where the mains circuit will be. the cable run is around 20m (quite likely less), from what I've read online I should be able to use 0.5mm bell wire for this without any problems to performance (correct me if I'm wrong). My plan is to have the ring pro chime through the honeywell DW915s which I believe can be done based on a review on Amazon from someone who said they did it, albeit I'm not sure how the wiring would be done. It seems to be quite challenging finding a circuit diagram showing a ring pro connected to an existing chime in the UK. I'm think the transformer from Ring is capable of also powering the Honeywell DW915s.

Is this plan feasible and what would be the best thickness of wire to use and where can I source it. Does the wire have to be solid core or would stranded core be sufficient.

Thanks

 

[h901]

Just install the Ring pro to begin with. It comes with a wireless chime.

You don't actually have to wire it to the consumer unit. Just make a small length of 1mm flex with a 13a plug and connect to the Ring pro transformer (comes in box) the other side of the transformer should connect directly to the doorbell

 

[GeorgeCooke]

From my research online 0.5mm bell wire seems to be inappropriate for this kind of distance and impact performance. Having looked online, I can't seem to find thicker solid 2 core wire, everything seems to be stranded cores.

What is wrong with using stranded cores?

 

[Khuz360]

Just install the Ring pro to begin with. It comes with a wireless chime.

You don't actually have to wire it to the consumer unit. Just make a small length of 1mm flex with a 13a plug and connect to the Ring pro transformer (comes in box) the other side of the transformer should connect directly to the doorbell

The current doorbell is a wireless system and the performance is awful, it's an old house with brick walls throughout and any wireless signal struggles as evidenced by the WiFi signal in the house.

There is no power socket next to the fuse box, so a new power socket would have to be installed. I don't want to use an existing power socket because there is no discreet location for it.

What is wrong with using stranded cores?

That's what I'm trying to find out. Does solid core perform better than stranded core or is the performance equal. Bell wire and fire alarm cable is solid core for a reason, I just don't know why.

 

[SJD]

The last few doorbells I've installed, I just used 1mm2 twin & earth, since I had reels of that anyway, and it was all going to be hidden in the walls.

 

[gazdkw82]

IV done a ring doorbell before. I just installed a fcu from a socket which then fed the transformer/bell and then wired directly into the ring.

I used 1.5mm for the fcu and bell wire from the transformer to the ring. Works great

 

[Wilko]

... Does solid core perform better than stranded core or is the performance equal...

Hi K, for these frequencies the electrical performance may be considered equal. Conductors in leads (like a kettle lead) are stranded so they can flex without damage. The same mm2 size conductor permanently fixed to the wall would be made using single copper core conductors and insulation. I guess it's cheaper to make the single conductor and being stiffer may actually help the cable "stay where it's put".

 

[Khuz360]

The last few doorbells I've installed, I just used 1mm2 twin & earth, since I had reels of that anyway, and it was all going to be hidden in the walls.

So based on your response stranded copper shouldn't be an issue. To play devils advocate a little here, are those doorbells still performing adequately and if they weren't would you come to know about it? I ask because as an installer once the job is done you would only be called if there is a major problem, would your customers notice a regular glitch here and there.

Unfortunately SJD, I have to get the cable across under the carpet because there is no other way to hide the cable quickly.

IV done a ring doorbell before. I just installed a fcu from a socket which then fed the transformer/bell and then wired directly into the ring.

I used 1.5mm for the fcu and bell wire from the transformer to the ring. Works great

Good suggestion, unfortunately still require a new wire to be installed somewhere which is just not feasible.

Hi K, for these frequencies the electrical performance may be considered equal. Conductors in leads (like a kettle lead) are stranded so they can flex without damage. The same mm2 size conductor permanently fixed to the wall would be made using single copper core conductors and insulation. I guess it's cheaper to make the single conductor and being stiffer may actually help the cable "stay where it's put".

Good knowledge, thanks. The cable will be fixed in place permanently under the carpets so there shouldn't be any flex. I'm just struggling to find solid core bell wire in anything more than 0.5mm2.

 

[SparkyChick]

You shouldn't be hiding cables under carpets, regardless of size/voltage. It's a recipe for premature failure at best and possible fire scenarios at worst.

If you need to secrete the cables out of the way, I'd be inclined to used some 8 core alarm cable. It's small, flexible and the cores can be doubled up. I installed a Nest doorbell the other day that was run on alarm cable (two cores doubled up) and I've done a Ring Pro, again, alarm cable with cores doubled up. It can be stapled to skirting board, which if done correctly will be barely noticeable.

IIRC, the Ring Pro does not use the chime part of any doorbell system, it comes with it's own plug in chime module, so I would just run one cable from the bell transformer to the Ring Pro and leave it at that.

 

[ruston]

You shouldn't be hiding cables under carpets, regardless of size/voltage. It's a recipe for premature failure at best and possible fire scenarios at worst.

If you need to secrete the cables out of the way, I'd be inclined to used some 8 core alarm cable. It's small, flexible and the cores can be doubled up. I installed a Nest doorbell the other day that was run on alarm cable (two cores doubled up) and I've done a Ring Pro, again, alarm cable with cores doubled up. It can be stapled to skirting board, which if done correctly will be barely noticeable.

IIRC, the Ring Pro does not use the chime part of any doorbell system, it comes with it's own plug in chime module, so I would just run one cable from the bell transformer to the Ring Pro and leave it at that.

Absolutely spot on . I have seen numerous alarm cables chafed through and failed because of this.
Don't do it.

 

[Khuz360]

You shouldn't be hiding cables under carpets, regardless of size/voltage. It's a recipe for premature failure at best and possible fire scenarios at worst.

If you need to secrete the cables out of the way, I'd be inclined to used some 8 core alarm cable. It's small, flexible and the cores can be doubled up. I installed a Nest doorbell the other day that was run on alarm cable (two cores doubled up) and I've done a Ring Pro, again, alarm cable with cores doubled up. It can be stapled to skirting board, which if done correctly will be barely noticeable.

IIRC, the Ring Pro does not use the chime part of any doorbell system, it comes with it's own plug in chime module, so I would just run one cable from the bell transformer to the Ring Pro and leave it at that.

I did not know that, but now that you mention it makes sense. I don't really have an alternative though given the location of the front door, the fuse box and the position of the chime and the layout of the house. It was never a problem in the past which I know isn't a good excuse. The only alternative is to completely rip up the carpet and go under the floorboards which again is not really practical.

Sadly barely noticeable for me is still noticeable (I have OCD).

I thought this to be the case as well however I have seen a video on Youtube of someone linking an existing chime and a review on Amazon of the honeywell device states they wired it to the Ring Pro as well.

The plug in chime relies on a wireless signal which is unreliable in the house. I have a good quality wireless router in one room and it barely gets the signal across to the kitchen which isn't that far really.

Absolutely spot on . I have seen numerous alarm cables chafed through and failed because of this.
Don't do it.

Thank you for the words of warning, it is appreciated.

 

[SparkyChick]

The Ring Pro relies on a wireless signal as well, so if you have spotty WiFi performance you're going to struggle with it.

An option might be to use some WiFi extender socket outlets, but I would question why the WiFi is so bad... re-enforced concrete walls, thick stone or steel framing in them?

In terms of the Ring Pro driving an existing chime, I'm not convinced the European version will do that. I came across a hint that it is possible using additional connections, but I do know 100% that the existing chime is bypassed using the kit supplied in the box.

There is the correct way to do this which is to have the cables properly concealed in floor voids, walls, coving etc. which will cost money and/or time. Depending on the way joists run etc. a good spark may be able to get the cable from A to B with lifting just a couple of corners of carpet.

 

[Khuz360]

The Ring Pro relies on a wireless signal as well, so if you have spotty WiFi performance you're going to struggle with it.

An option might be to use some WiFi extender socket outlets, but I would question why the WiFi is so bad... re-enforced concrete walls, thick stone or steel framing in them?

In terms of the Ring Pro driving an existing chime, I'm not convinced the European version will do that. I came across a hint that it is possible using additional connections, but I do know 100% that the existing chime is bypassed using the kit supplied in the box.

There is the correct way to do this which is to have the cables properly concealed in floor voids, walls, coving etc. which will cost money and/or time. Depending on the way joists run etc. a good spark may be able to get the cable from A to B with lifting just a couple of corners of carpet.

Yeah this is true and I hadn't actually thought to do a WiFi test from where I'm planning to position the doorbell. Reason the WiFi is so spotty particularly the 5gig band is due to the house being an old brick built house, so the walls between rooms are thick and the outside twice as much. I have access points where I need them and I do get a WiFi signal when I'm in the drive which is further from where the doorbell will go. I'll have to test the signal strength on both bands to be sure though. Just wanted to have it there as I thought it would be a good idea and eventually pair it up so it flashes to the TV when someone is at the door (can't do that with the existing framework but I can see it happening eventually).

In terms of connecting it to the chime, based on the wiring instructions for the honeywell device, it should only need one wire going to it from the doorbell itself. My guess is the wiring would go something like this.

Ring Pro > Ring Transformer > Neutral wire from ring Transformer > Honeywell Device

Honeywell Device > Ring Transformer

Based on the above I would have the Ring Transformer powering both the Doorbell and the Honeywell Device which I believe it can do because it does have 8v 12v & 24v terminals. The honeywell device needs 12v although it says it can be powered via 8v.

The alternative approach would be to run a single wire from the Ring Pro direct to the Honeywell Device in addition to the power line going to it.

My plan was to do a test fit of the whole thing before having anything installed by connecting the transformer to a plug temporarily and creating the circuit.

 

[SparkyChick]

As I said, to the best of my knowledge, there are only two terminals on the back of a Ring Pro and they supply power. I don't believe the European version has the facility to drive a third party external chime module, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Khuz360]

As I said, to the best of my knowledge, there are only two terminals on the back of a Ring Pro and they supply power. I don't believe the European version has the facility to drive a third party external chime module, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I'm basing this from a couple of people who have said they did it on their Amazon reviews for the honeywell device. I'll find out when the times comes to doing it.

My main questions were around the correct cable to use for the run of 30m+ for the initial push button doorbell direct to the honeywell device. I'm don't mind spending £30 on FP200 cable if I have to. However if I can source 0.75mm solid core bell wire then I'll do that or If I can use stranded core wire without a performance drop. Bearing in mind the honeywell device will be battery powered not wired into the mains.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

However if I can source 0.75mm solid core bell wire then I'll do that or If I can use stranded core wire without a performance drop. Bearing in mind the honeywell device will be battery powered not wired into the mains.

I think you have already been told that stranded cable will make no difference.

 

[Khuz360]

I think you have already been told that stranded cable will make no difference.

Yes someone has advised that stranded core wouldn't make a difference for the purpose I have stated.

 

[Santa]

Have you considered upgrading your wifi? I too live in a house with all brick walls and my BT system (others are available) is fine all over.

 

[stevels4]

Sounds like a lot of work for just a doorbell, have you considered an extra large door knocker or asking visitors to ring you when they arrive.

 

[Khuz360]

Have you considered upgrading your wifi? I too live in a house with all brick walls and my BT system (others are available) is fine all over.

I have hardwired access points where the WiFi is weakest so it is actually fine. Although I am curious how the mesh WiFi performs speed wise because I know with range extenders the speed drops quite a bit and mesh WiFi is in my view a range extender on steroids lol. In actual fact its the 5ghz band that is weakest, the 2.4ghz band is fine. I've done an analysis of the WiFi where the doorbell would be positioned and it seems to be fine. I have seen the Ring Elite though which has LAN capability but insanely expensive lol. The only other alternative is the Byron which doesn't have the same capabilities as the Ring and those capabilities that are missing are deal breakers lol.

Sounds like a lot of work for just a doorbell, have you considered an extra large door knocker or asking visitors to ring you when they arrive.

I'm not actually doing it for my benefit. It's for the benefit of my grandparents who are not tech savvy. I bought a wireless doorbell with 2 chimes, because my grandma hated the ugly visible wire that was there and so did I. Big mistake on my part because it is so unreliable. At the very least, I'm going to hardwire a new doorbell in, the addition of the video doorbell would be nice but not essential at this point.