East Anglia - Is there still a major market?

[Luke@Walsall]

First off, i'll say hello to you all!

My name is Luke and i work at Walsall Electrical Ltd in Norwich. We merged into the Solar PV market late last year, and the end of year sales were relatively good, considering the competition from pretty much every wholesaler in the region that 'got in there' a lot earlier than we did!

Over the past couple of months, business has dropped, which following the FIT news, was to be expected!

Recently we have seen an increase in our sales of PV stocks, and are now struggling to find good suppliers of a lot of our stocks in the UK, so have had to scource from Europe, which so far seems to be going ok, but it isn't even close to what we were doing in our first ever week of PV!

Are many of you on here from the region? As one of 2 salesman for Walsall, the obvious thought is 'we need to get more money coming in', as we should all know, if the moneys not there, the business doesn't work. We do have a couple of fairly 'large' spending customers, but my main concern is that the higher powers above are chasing something that isn't quite there yet. We are all thinking (and hoping) that the market will rise as it did when the FIT meant a much shorter investment return, but few think it will happen any time soon.

Really, i'd like to hear from 'local' installers, be it a large company or a 'one man band', see what's what in the region, and see if there's any other customers we can see about servicing. We speak to suppliers, but they all say stocks are on long leads and sales are going up, but it would appear that it is not the case for us.

Our main stock lines at the moment are SMA, Schueco, Sanyo and Canadian Solar. So if you're in the market for any of the above, we could be worth a call. We may well need to source outside of the UK, but we have a couple of reliable suppliers that we can call on for fairly quick delivery.

However, i'm wondering if spending days at a time sourcing stocks, for what is actually a very poor profit maker for the wholesaler, really worth it? It's fine if we can shift pallets of panels, van loads of inverters and miles of cables, but is there really enough demand at the moment?

 

[Markc]

Million dollar question I think. If I could see into the future then I wouldn't be here writing this!

I see the PV industry as being very challenging over the next 6 to 12 months. The bottom line will be cost. Looking at a range of products more on cost than quality. It's all very well stocking the top end items, sma and Sanyo but if there are products that perfom well and at a third of the cost then these will be the ones to go for IMO.

We have rarely bought panels or inverters from a wholesaler and prefer to use a PV supplier. Mounting system we get out of Norwich to save on transport cost and we like rail in 6mt lengths.

When things are as they are cost is the number one. I had a price from Edds only this week for Sanyo 250s which one branch has in stock but at that rate they can keep them in stock as well. If you don't move on panels swiftly python your prices wouldn't reflect current market rates.

Its a tough call but may be the sundries items might be the way to go rather than holding panels and SMA inverters.

Will be stay with PV. We are certainly going to try to but only if it pays!

 

[babba]

First off, i'll say hello to you all!

My name is Luke and i work at Walsall Electrical Ltd in Norwich. We merged into the Solar PV market late last year, and the end of year sales were relatively good, considering the competition from pretty much every wholesaler in the region that 'got in there' a lot earlier than we did!

Over the past couple of months, business has dropped, which following the FIT news, was to be expected!

Recently we have seen an increase in our sales of PV stocks, and are now struggling to find good suppliers of a lot of our stocks in the UK, so have had to scource from Europe, which so far seems to be going ok, but it isn't even close to what we were doing in our first ever week of PV!

Are many of you on here from the region? As one of 2 salesman for Walsall, the obvious thought is 'we need to get more money coming in', as we should all know, if the moneys not there, the business doesn't work. We do have a couple of fairly 'large' spending customers, but my main concern is that the higher powers above are chasing something that isn't quite there yet. We are all thinking (and hoping) that the market will rise as it did when the FIT meant a much shorter investment return, but few think it will happen any time soon.

Really, i'd like to hear from 'local' installers, be it a large company or a 'one man band', see what's what in the region, and see if there's any other customers we can see about servicing. We speak to suppliers, but they all say stocks are on long leads and sales are going up, but it would appear that it is not the case for us.

Our main stock lines at the moment are SMA, Schueco, Sanyo and Canadian Solar. So if you're in the market for any of the above, we could be worth a call. We may well need to source outside of the UK, but we have a couple of reliable suppliers that we can call on for fairly quick delivery.

However, i'm wondering if spending days at a time sourcing stocks, for what is actually a very poor profit maker for the wholesaler, really worth it? It's fine if we can shift pallets of panels, van loads of inverters and miles of cables, but is there really enough demand at the moment?

I couldn't agree with Mark more, the PV market is so turbulent at the moment and it is very very price orientated which in a nutshell means, lots of crap from China. I hate to say it but quality customers are few and far between and most judge the quotation on the price, not the aftermath that occurs a couple of years down the road. But unfortunately if you want to stay in business, you have to go with what the customers want. Personally I would not like to be entering into the wholesale side or retail side come to that, with the way the market place is at the moment. But I suppose as the old saying goes, if you don't open a shop you can't sell but I'd dip a toe before the foot and wouldn't go buying large amounts of stock at this moment in time, because give it two months and you would probably be priced out of the market place. I don't think anybody is under the illusion that the next 12 months is going to be easy. Most people who are in the market place at the moment have suppliers and will shop around for the cheapest price and most wholesalers are quite established now and in order to establish yourself as a player, you are going to have to do an awful lot of groundwork and an awful lot of marketing, which is very time consuming and expensive.

Personally at the moment, I would sit back and watch the market place, but I can't see a lot of companies going through the hassle of MCS accreditation, so the chances of enticing new start ups is quite low IMO. But don't get me wrong the market place isn't dead after March 3rd, but if you fancy an expensive challenge then go for it.

 

[finchy]

Agree with the above, I haven't sold Sanyo installations since November. Sadly unless they drop their prices they will be priced out the Market. Cost is so important now the FIT rate has reduced, however I'm really concerned that by adapting this methodology we will be chasing our tails. The government would keep reducing the FIT, 25yr performance and quality/yield may be the victim.

Yes the next 12 months will be interesting, but at the moment we need to take each week and month at a time. The uncertainty in the governments support and framework is crippling for the industry.

Investing in solar pv in both a supply chain or end customer is not dead. The facts are that solar energy is a serious renewable energy, electricity prices and demand will increase exponentially in the next 10 years. It's just seems at the moment you can not have all your eggs in solar, unless your very lucky. So developing a renewable line would be a good strategic decision but do so very carefully.

Consumer confidence is key......!

 

[Luke@Walsall]

Interesting commentery regarding Sanyo panels! Strangely enough we have stuck 44 panels on our van for delivery this morning, and have a reserved pallet of 40 coming in on Monday, which will be going straight out! I too was of the thought that at £370 odd per panel, we wouldn't move any of them, but they seem now to be moving faster than the Canadians and dare i say it, the Ritek's, which so far, not 1 has has been reserved for quite a while! We have 2 pallets of CS's at the moment, and 12 Ritek's, so hopefully they can go soon to make room!

With the 44 Sanyo's has also gone 2x SMA 12kw inverters! The really annoying thing is, it is our Storesperson that has secured the orders!

Well, being a general wholesaler means if PV falls on its backside we won't be shutting up shop, but it's a constant annoyance with management wanting to really push it, and the customers saying their books won't justify any buying! And also the fact that £100k's worth of stock will probably sell out for £105-110k, thats if it does sell! Luckily we have a French supplier that will supply one pallet at a time as and when we need it, but we have quite a few (9 pallets!) Canadian Solar's coming in at the end of the month. We don't have the space for them so i'm really hoping our Rep and Manager can get them gone before they turn up!

With regards to the FIT, won't the return now be back to how it was when first introduced? Last year returns were estimated to be 7-10yrs dependant on materials, but now looking at double that. As you may tell, being new into the Solar game means some, what may seem to be, very basic questions may well be asked!

 

[Markc]

There may well be another reason for the Sanyo sale currently.

If an installer has a contracted job based on last years high prices but now purchased panels at the reduced price then this also will make the market currently look good. Just wait till April. Only time will tell.

 

[Jaycee]

Luke

Let me know if you want rid of some of your Canadian Solar panels, i might be able to shift them for you at the right price

 

[juwelkeeper]

What are the Ritek panels like i have never heard of them.

 

[moggy1968]

luke, thanks for posting your wholesale prices on a public forum, always useful!

 

[Noshocks]

There is no way that second tier distribution, such as cef, eddies, and the other general wholesalers can compete in future, it's well known that cef branches are buying from 'k' and 's', two separate branches as well as speaking to my sales guy at 'k' have confirmed this. Why would you buy at second tier and pay over the odds, when you can buy a single panel at any of the large pv distributors at a lower price?

 

[Jaycee]

There is no way that second tier distribution, such as cef, eddies, and the other general wholesalers can compete in future, it's well known that cef branches are buying from 'k' and 's', two separate branches as well as speaking to my sales guy at 'k' have confirmed this. Why would you buy at second tier and pay over the odds, when you can buy a single panel at any of the large pv distributors at a lower price?

I work for Edmundson electrical Plymouth, and we sell a great deal of PV equipment, we buy panels by the container load so that we can be very competitive in the Market place.

 

[cbw]

Have eddies still got stock, I am after 2 4KW kits that they quoted me for last week?

I have emailed asking this question, will call them Monday

 

[Jaycee]

Have eddies still got stock, I am after 2 4KW kits that they quoted me for last week?

I have emailed asking this question, will call them Monday

You will have to check with the branch that raised your quote......but if they have no stock then let me know and I will re-quote with current stock for you.