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Discuss EICR required for Part P installations? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    Hi Everyone,
    I have been told that when I join a Part P scheme I have to complete an EICR form for every installation or addition to a circuit before I can do any work on the circuit. So even putting a new socket on a bedroom circuit I have to complete an EICR form. To do that I have to have indemnity insurance as well as public liability insurance. If I don't have the indemnity insurance then I have to pay someone who is authorised to write out a EICR before I can do any work under part P schme.

    I didn't know I had to do an EICR form before I can even add a socket to an exsisting circuit, or not having indemnity insurance I have to pay someone to write the EICR form.

    This doesnt sound right to me?
     
  2. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Where did you obtain this advice from?

    PS have a read of reg 132.16
     
  3. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    It is always wise to test the circuit you are working on first to identify any possible problems which may need attention/additional costs because you don't want to find them after. You would need to do a Minor Works Cert anyway.
    If changing a board it is advisable to undertake a full test for the same reasons but for single circuit alteration then no but you need to verify adequacy of earthing/bonding etc.
     
  4. SparkyChick
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    SparkyChick Making a banana smoothy for my fave gorilla Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    Business Name:
    SparkyChick
    westward beat me to it, so what he said :)
     
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  5. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    One of the part P schemes staff.

    I would always check circuits before I do any work on it and make sure it is safe to add on to it. But having indemnity insurance and filling out a EICR form even for an extra socket seems wrong to me?
     
  6. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    As said no you don't, EICR. Which Scheme by the by?
     
  7. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    It is unnecessary sounds like crossed wires, ouch:)
     
  8. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    You don't need to be a member of a scheme to do EICR's
     
  9. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Perhaps you just misunderstood what they were advising, perhaps they were suggesting what Westward was suggesting?
     
  10. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Very suggestive.
     
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  11. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Only making a suggestion :)
     
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  12. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    I did argue what they said but they wasnt having it.

    I used to know the EICR as a periodic inspection form, which for example was also used for lanlord checks if I am thinking of the right form.

    But if I do domestic work then I am right that I wont need to fill out a EICR form before I do any work So the advisor I spoke to gave me the wrong information.

    Thank you all for the replys
     
  13. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    In a nutshell big YES. As long as you comply with reg 132.16, do your addition/alteration and complete, if appropriate Minor Works, unless its a new circuit or consumer unit change, then EIC.
     
  14. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I'm orrfff now to make a suggestion to her indoors....................what to have for tea, or if you're a posh northerner, dinner. :)
     
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  15. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    OP. Email, don't ring, you scheme and pose the question you've asked here. Just bullet proof your bum. Always find ringing them, you'll end up with some knob who gives the wrong advice. Email is so much more compelling for them, you even get reg numbers quoted. If its urgent, you can always get collective advice here.

    Now where's me mushrooms and tarragon?
     
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  16. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    OP you may find that the scheme has additional requirements above and beyond what the regs require. By becoming a member of the scheme you may have unwittingly agreed to certain conditions and that's what they are now stating.
    If you don't follow their "rules" you may void your membership.
    I've heard a similar line from Storma.
     
  17. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Part P schemes staff, now there is a job for the boys if ever there was, part P schemes staff??????
     
  18. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    That is odd because dont they all have to follow the same process because if its not in the regs can they just make there own rules up?
     
  19. valleybilly
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    valleybilly Scuber Do

    Location:
    Manchester
    Best practice interpretations by part p operators influencing the regs as usual . These Conditions they set make them feel important so just agree .
     
  20. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    is there such a thing? Surely you mean a posh southerner?
     
  21. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    SO OP...Whoever told you that, you need to ask them what if it is a person with very little money who wants a socket moving say £30.00 and you say, well I will have to do an EICR, and if I find faults you may have to have them rectified which could cost you up to £3000.00 for a full rewire, or at least £200.00 for an EICR and any works on top. Do you think you will ever get the job? or any job for that matter?
     
  22. TheCodboy
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    TheCodboy Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Newcastle
    Stroma have suggested that you can carry out EICR's (Periodics) with Part P scheme without any Periodic Quals (C&G 2395 and the like).
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  23. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    But its not cheap paying indemnity insurance when i dont need it
     
  24. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    An advisor of a part p scheme. I agree with what you say but it seems other schemes do the same as well. I dont get it because i dont think they can just change the rules as they please.
     
  25. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    Which scheme ? And what position does this person work in, assessor or telesales staff ?
     
  26. Jay Sparks
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    Jay Sparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Bratford
    What scheme/scam is telling you this bull poo?
     
  27. Jay Sparks
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    Jay Sparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Bratford
    Too quick on the draw Andy78
     
  28. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    He seems very evasive about saying I wonder why.
     
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  29. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    Take with one massive pinch of salt the advise you think you are getting from the scam provider
    Either they have moved to Mars and don't now live in the real world or the advise they have given is being interpreted wrong by yourself

    Either way do what the regs suggest regards assessing additional loading,the earthing and bonding etc and most importantly make sure the price you charge is making the job worthwhile and the job you do is of a good standard

    Use these schemes for the one and only beneficial service they provide "notification process" and get the requirements for installation work from the good book,try and ignore some of the stupid suggestions they are prone to make
     
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  30. Jay Sparks
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    Jay Sparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Bratford

    It must be crossed wires somewhere?? Why would any scam say something like that? They may have mentioned the need for the insurance if carrying out EICR's and that's whats confused the OP??

    Jay
     
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  31. Jay Sparks
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    Jay Sparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Bratford
    Whilst I hole hardheartedly agree about the "notifying" thing, I have seen other members have said previously that being with a certain scam (not saying which coz I aint advertising them!), has helped them win contracts etc. Never worked like that for me but most of my clientele were more interested in the price.lol

    Jay
     
  32. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    I think your right,he seems well confused by it all

    Agreed the right or wrong being Nicy approved opens doors
     
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  33. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    It didnt confuse me because i spoke to them for ages about this because it made no sense but they still said unless i get the indemnity insurance i cant do any work unless I get someone to do an EICR first. I will email them as someone said on here and see if they say the same in the email reply. So even adding to a circuit has to have a EICR.
     
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  34. Jay Sparks
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    Jay Sparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Bratford
    Unlikely they will say the same because it will probably be a different person. Maybe the person you spoke to was new and it was them confused but certainly someone was.lol

    Jay
     
  35. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    Don't mention the previous call - make the email completely new enquiry. Start afresh, be happy!
     
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  36. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    132.16 Additions and alterations to an installation
    No addition or alteration, temporary or permanent, shall be made to an existing installation, unless it has been ascertained that the rating and the condition of any existing equipment, including that of the distributor, will be adequate for the altered circumstances. Furthermore, the earthing and bonding arrangements, if necessary for the protective measure applied for the safety of the addition or alteration, shall be adequate.

    GN3 does mention "it should be considered when carrying out alteration to an existing installation"
    Maybe we should collectively lobby IET regards this issue??
     
  37. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Sorry read the first sentence, what tosh, please explain?
     
  38. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Oh for Gods sake I'm full of Chateaubriand and fried Mars Bars. I 'phoned & emailed' my scheme (Elecsa) countless of times asking for advice, and have never been suggested/advised/contrived/twisted/persuaded/convinced, anything other than is in BS7671 or part P. EMAIL THEM AND GET CLAIFICATION. Flipping heck Maureen.
     
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  39. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    There is no requirement to do an EICR before changing a circuit...

    There is no requirement for Professional indemnity insurance when doing EICR's

    There is no requirement for scheme membership to do EICR 's


    Next....
     
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  40. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    Are Stroma also saying every job needs a part p sparky to do an EICR first or pay someone to do it if you dont have indemnity insurance?
     
  41. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    No schemes rules are saying that. You have been misinformed.
     
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  42. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    I am very sure you are right but would like to know why he said stroma also want the same.
     
  43. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    What may have been meant is that if you want Stroma to include you for EICR work on their scheme, they require a minimum amount of PI insurance from you.

    For some reason you still refuse to say which person in which scheme told you all this.
    Good advice has already been given to you by others in this thread, to contact the scheme and ask for clarification of this matter in writing.
     
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  44. JonnyRegga
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    JonnyRegga EF Member

    Location:
    Luton
    Andy i do agree with what everyone has said and thats why i posted the question because i didnt belive what i was told but i just wanted to know why someone said stroma wanted the same as i was told i needed. When i email i just wanted to say that no other scheme wants it and quote bs7671 and then didnt want them saying stroma want it as well.

    I aint stressing just wanted to get all my facts right but maybe i am going over the top a bit over the top. Thanks to everyone who has given me good advice on here i am really grateful and sorry for dragging it on. I will let everyone know what they say when I send my email.
     
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  45. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    You'll wake up Monday morning, and it will have been all just a horrible nightmare :)
     
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