eicr

[iamelectric]

am i correct in saying cable lying on a suspended ceiling all over the place would be marked down as a C3

 

[Plonker 3]

Have a read of this.

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/use...y/best_practice/BestPracticeGuide4-Locked.pdf

 

[iamelectric]

cheers i have a copy of it , got it on the testing course , was wanting other peoples opinion

 

[SirKit Breaker]

am i correct in saying cable lying on a suspended ceiling all over the place would be marked down as a C3

As with all things Periodic, it is up to you, and depending on the likelihood of danger, i would say C1, C2 or C3, sorry to be vague, but without seeing the install, i am in no position to argue with you.

If it is an immediate danger, such as is it chaffed exposing live conductors which could come into contact with the exposed conductive parts of the ceiling, if so then C1 Danger present now.

They are chaffed but no exposed conductors, but they may get further damaged and potentially become dangerous, then C2 not an immediate danger but could be potentially dangerous if left in this condition

If it is just a mess, not damaged enough to impair safe continued use, and will be OK if it is all tidied up, then C3.

Cheers………….Howard

 

[uksparks]

Wow, that looks cool, it's like a lightning bolt generator type thing.

 

[D Skelton]

am i correct in saying cable lying on a suspended ceiling all over the place would be marked down as a C3

No code

Tin hat on

 

[GMES]

No code

Tin hat on

Agree I wouldn't code it due to it been messy/ just bad workmanship.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I wont disagree with either of the above, but going back to my original reply, i haven't had the benefit of seeing it, and it may well not require a code as you rightly say, so it remains to the conscience of the OP to tell it how he sees it.

Cheers…………..Howard

 

[iamelectric]

thanks for the input , not got a lot of experience with testing thats y i asked the question

 

[GMES]

I have just re-read Howards post and it does make me think again about the fire man who tragically died during a fire after the suspended ceiling collapsed and he got entangled in all the wiring that was unsupported above. so maybe a c3 is appropriate and highlight them of that point

 

[iamelectric]

heard about that does anyone have a link to that story?

 

[D Skelton]

I have just re-read Howards post and it does make me think again about the fire man who tragically died during a fire after the suspended ceiling collapsed and he got entangled in all the wiring that was unsupported above. so maybe a c3 is appropriate and highlight them of that point

If the installation is being inspected to BS7671:2015 then you'd be entirely correct, as it stands at this moment in time though there is nothing in current regulations (as far as I'm aware of) that calls for cables of circuits for general use to be secured in this way.

 

[iamelectric]

googled the firefighter story doesn't mention anything about suspended ceiling , it was a flat in a high rise building , you could argue that cables clipped would not make a difference as the plastic clips will melt in a fire , think that story was thrown into another thread for a bit of scare mongering

 

[GMES]

Damien what would you do in the op's situation I would probably not code it but put an advisory on a separate sheet although a c3 is really an advisory/recommendation. the part that always winds me up is it's not hard to do the job right in the 1st place. I know it can be hard to convince a customer to pay for basket tray etc, but surely some form of basic containment / support.

 

[GMES]

googled the firefighter story doesn't mention anything about suspended ceiling , it was a flat in a high rise building , you could argue that cables clipped would not make a difference as the plastic clips will melt in a fire , think that story was thrown into another thread for a bit of scare mongering

the advice there would be to use metal tie wraps or tie band . I cant remember where iread that now but it was definitely somewhere.

 

[SJD]

If the installation is being inspected to BS7671:2015 then you'd be entirely correct, as it stands at this moment in time though there is nothing in current regulations (as far as I'm aware of) that calls for cables of circuits for general use to be secured in this way.

I just took a look at the proposed BS7671:2015, in particular 521.200, which requires the use of fire-proof supports for wiring in escape routes, so you can't use plastic clips or plastic conduit.

For a public buildings, which often have defined escape routes, I can see this making sense. But does this apply in domestic houses, for example cables in the hallway or stairs, where it will no longer be acceptable to use plastic trunking?

 

[iamelectric]

i agree with you but even with trunking , tray or basket theres alway flexes to lights on the suspended ceiling , the one in question was just cables going everywhere , some where dead from old circuits that had not been ripped out and half of them where cctv cat 5 and alarm cables , thats y i was thinking C3 just a recommendation to tidy it up

 

[D Skelton]

Damien what would you do in the op's situation I would probably not code it but put an advisory on a separate sheet although a c3 is really an advisory/recommendation. the part that always winds me up is it's not hard to do the job right in the 1st place. I know it can be hard to convince a customer to pay for basket tray etc, but surely some form of basic containment / support.

I agree totally, it's shoddy workmanship at best and if I was installing from scratch all the cabling would be in or on containment. I have to admit though, I'm guilty of doing exactly the same thing on a couple of occasions! lol. When I've been asked to add an extra couple of network points for example and it's already a jungle above the suspended ceiling, what's the point in trying to make it look neat when it already looks like a dog's dinner?

That said, there's nothing in the regs that prohibits the running of cable directly on to a suspended ceiling, therefore I wouldn't code it. I'd mention it more than likely, but writing it down would just be a waste of perfectly good ink as it'll only get ignored anyway.

 

[GMES]

i agree with you but even with trunking , tray or basket theres alway flexes to lights on the suspended ceiling , the one in question was just cables going everywhere , some where dead from old circuits that had not been ripped out and half of them where cctv cat 5 and alarm cables , thats y i was thinking C3 just a recommendation to tidy it up

I get exactly where you are coming from it is just that as Damien said can you justify a C3 also even though it is only a recommendation the customer may perceive it as a blemish on a report that could otherwise be totally satisfactory.

 

[stevethesparks]

A local hotel has asked for the lighting to be re-wired in one of its function rooms, to allow alternate switching arrangements for a client that frequently uses this room.
It is a false ceiling, but not accessable, its plastered board on a metal grid type ceiling.
The hotel want minimal disruption to the decoration.
I think most sparks would fish between lights as this is the only option - or not get the job.
In effect, it will be the same, cabling supported by the ceiling.
Maybe they best get this done before 2015