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  1. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    Hi there
    i have a qestion about an electric range cooker installation and requirements. It looks like there are numerous possibilities??? which doesn't sound right, i have my family leaving with me and i cannot afford to take my chances.
    Ok, So I have a flavel from currys (mln10crs) , electric cooker 13.5 kw to be installed.

    which cable do i need? the lengh from the cooker to the fuse board is 9m , the cable would go in the wall and under the floor. how many amps do we need? what would be the size of the breaker?
    Sofar I've been given 3 possibilities: 1. leave the 6 mm cable, 2. change to 1 mm, 3. change to 16mm.
    I've done my math so possibly 59 amps in needed and 16 mm? Please help.

    thanks
     
  2. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    You are intending to get this work done by a competent Electrician aren't you?
    The Electrician will discuss cable routing/sizing when he or she comes to survey the installation.
     
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  3. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    6mm maybe adequate for cookers upto 15kw as diversity can be applied to cooker circuits
    First 10amps of the load + 30% of the remainder + 5 amps if there's a socket outlet incorporated in the cooker control unit.

    Not sure were you got 1mm from tho or did you mean 10mm?
     
  4. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    generally 6.0mm cable on a 32A breaker will suffice. the reason for this is that oven elements switch on/off frequently ( by their thermostats ) and the actual average current is a lot less than the kW rating would suggest. if the cooker is on a 6mm cable and a 32A breaker, the worst that can happen is tripping of the breaker. if that happens, you could then consider uprating cable and breaker, using this diversity, i'd estimate your current @ 25A ( assuming no socket outlet on cooker isolator.
     
  5. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    It's a case of RTFM:p

    IMG_0519.PNG
     
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  6. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    40A fuse? a bit pessimistic aren't they.
     
  7. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
  8. Leesparkykent
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    Leesparkykent You Rock Gmes Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kent
    like you said probably fine on a 32A breaker.
     
  9. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    manufacturers covering their own backside perhaps by stating 40 amp fuse.
    Guess they've never heard of mcbs?
     
  10. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    hi there, ys I.ve meant 10mm :)
     
  11. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    hi there , so 6mm might be ok, but 10mm would be even better?? I would need to know :) my kitchen is in a full refurb stage so adding, removing or changing one more wire would be just fine.
     
  12. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    I had three electritians and they had three different idea: 1. 6mm ok, 2. need to be change to 10mm 3. need to be changed to 16mm . hence my question
     
  13. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    if you are in the process of a major refurb., then now is the time to up the cable to 10mm if your electrician advises so. but as long as the 6mm cable is not derated by being in insulation, it's good for 47A, so my choice would be to get it tested to prove it's integrity, and if test proves OK, then leave it in, along with the 32A MCB, which could be uprated to a 40A if required.
     
  14. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    Probably ?? I would rather have "surely"
     
  15. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    sorry to be a pain. how is it possibly that 6 mm would be ok? the old cooker is much smaller, etc. So overall you are saying that 10 mm would be better? and one more question, please, are you an electrician? my apologies, if it seems rude though
     
  16. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    You can't get a sure and certain answer on this over the Internet, no electrician will give a definitive answer without actually seeing the installation first hand.
     
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  17. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
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    Telectrix
    6mm cable , if installed in a void, clipped, and/or buried in plaster ( as opposed to being run in insulation) is good for 47A, and can be protected by up to a 40A MCB. bear in mind that your range cooker will never pull more than 30A due to diversity. this has been a rule of thumb for 60 years. and, in answer to your other question, i am a qualified electrical engineer with 40 + years experience.
     
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  18. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    if 6mm is ok then 10mm will also be ok, it won't be better, it'll just be a marginally more expensive version of ok.
    If 6mm is ok then any cable of that size or greater will do the job, although if you go too big then you'll have trouble terminating it.
     
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  19. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi Anna, to work out if 10mm might be required it would be good to know the detail of the cable run - its length and its installation method. In the right conditions the 6mm will be ok, but that's what your Electrician can best assess on site. I can't imagine needing 16mm :)
     
  20. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    although if you go too big then you'll have trouble terminating it. - sorry to ask, what do you mean by that?
     
  21. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    ok, so it is 10 m lengh from the consumer unit plus an extra 1.5 m from the oven to the socket (in order to be able to move the cooker). the cable will be running under the floor and partially in the wall. So up from the socket (in a wall) then uder the floor boards and then to the consumer unit. thanks
     
  22. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    6mm is fine.
    Tho it makes no difference to anyone on here as it's your electricians decision as he's installing the circuit and certifying it.
     
  23. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    thank you so so much. ok, just a crazy question, please, if I would turn on all at once: 2 ovens, 5 ceramic rings, grill and plate warmer (eg. during Xmas), wouldn't it make installation crush?? i had already some problems with an elecric shower and it was just 10 kw:-(
     
  24. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    You need to appreciate that a electric shower has a built in thermostat allowing no diversity to be applied to the circuit and is nothing really like an electric induction oven which incorporates heating elements which when reach temperature switch themselves off
    No your electrics won't crush?
    Whatever that means :)
     
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  25. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    What happened with the shower, can I ask ?
     
  26. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    It was wired in 1.5mm :D
     
  27. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    it stopped working and i was told that electrics melted becouse the wire was not appropriate. i am definitely not an expert :-0
     
  28. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    thank you
     
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  29. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    just one more thing, please, but this time is not the cooker :)
    it is about the lights. my kitchen diner has some downlights in the kitchen part and just one ceiling rose in the diner part, I am adding as well 2 x under cabinet lights. so those 3 types of lights ideally would be linked with one tripple switch. but, I would like to have them dimmable, is this possible?
     
  30. Cadgey123
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    Cadgey123 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    London
    What had caused you to ask all these questions? I know you have conflict of answers but you aren't an electrician so as long as it is installed, signed off and gives no problems what does it matter?
     
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  31. Cadgey123
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    Cadgey123 Regular EF Member

    Location:
    London
    You can dim them as long as you have dimmable lights
     
  32. robd
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    robd Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    East Anglia
    The answer to the question that started this thread is written in the on site guide which a decent electrician should be aware of. I get this question regularly "oh the company came to fit the cooker and they said we need a bigger cable"...give me strength
     
  33. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    If you are refurbishing your kitchen, best you find a 4th spark, via local recommendation and work with them.
     
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  34. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    hmmm, y
    thank you
     
  35. anna anna
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    anna anna EF Member

    Location:
    oxford
    ok, it makes sense, thanks
     
  36. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    The bigger the cable, the harder it is to work with, especially in the rather cramped conditions of a standard backbox for a cooker switch.
    Plus I don't think 16mm would fit in the terminals of some brands of cooker switch.
     
  37. davesparks
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    davesparks Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    guildford
    That's a pretty odd kind of dinner you are cooking where you turn all elements on at the same instant.
    The last time I cooked a Christmas dinner the oven was a long time before the hob.

    But anyway, the elements will very quickly settle down as the thermostats start to kick in, this is kind of the point of cooker diversity calculations.

    What problems did you have with the 10kW shower? That is different to a cooker as it presents a single 10kW load whereas a cooker is made up of separate loads.
     
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