Emergency Lighting - Periodic or New System

[Grangewood]

I have recently passed my Fire Alarm and Emergency Lighting Training and have been approached by a friend with regards to Assessing the Emergency Lighting for a local company.
I have conducted a visual check and the system is clearly Non Compliant, there are No Documents in respect of Plans, Maintenance Logs, Test Logs and No Grid Switches to Test the System.
I have suggested the system needs to be completely overhauled and a New Design and Compliance Certification Completed together with a Monthly Test Log Book.
The company have asked whether I would do a EICR and just change or add some Lights and start a Test Log book.
I have so far declined and am insisting it needs to be compliant to current Regs.
Am I being overzealous or am I right to insist on a New System.

 

[Toneyz]

Before looking at log books etc, EICR,key switches I would look at the emergency lighting in place does it comply what are the lux levels does the compliant lights need new batteries and are they lasting the three hours and proceed from there.

 

[Nigel]

Probably a bit over-cautious.

I come across this a lot. What I do is ensure they are fully aware that I cannot verify the installation or any works I do as compliant with BS 5266. I will issue a MWC and an Emergency Lighting Completion Certificate clearly stating on the certificate that x y or z has not been carried out due to client request.

Under no circumstances issue a verification certificate unless you are happy it complies.

 

[Grangewood]

Hi Thanks for the responses, I have checked the Lux Levels with my meter, the lights are probably around 5 years with Bulbs, The Lux reading are within limits but some battery lights have already failed as they do not last the 3 hours minimum and will be replaced.
I have considered the options outlined but cannot verify the system as it stands.

 

[Welchyboy1]

I have found emergency lighting to be the most misunderstood and generally poorly installed electrical system

Finding an installation that actually complied with any version of 5266 at one time is a scarcity, unless its a public or large private project

90% of emergency light fittings sold are cheap chinese inports which have no spacing table info with them or plug in details with dialux etc

Problematic to say the least, i install emg lighting but i try and avoid reporting on existing install unless its obvious it has be done at least with a bit of a clue and with reasonable quality material

But then again i feel the same way about eicrs, fed up with pulling apart a load of turd installs and being expected to patch it up to pass as the customer refuses to spend any money on it

 

[The Ghost]

The standards regarding BS5266 and others are not statutory. An emergency lighting system can be specified by the client or enforcing authorities. You are merely there to ensure what does exist is compliant or note deviations from the relevant standards. It is up to the client to specify the standard of the system they are using. Of course it would need to comply with insurance and enforcing authorities such as building control but my take on it is it is not my personal responsibility to insist on a particular standard. As stated do the annual test and ensure recording of testing is in place and a responsible person does the necessary tests as apt.

 

[westward10]

You can't insist on a new system without giving evidence to support your suggestion. As mentioned in #5 the chances of finding a system fully compliant with BS5266 is going to be rare. Annex K of BS5266:1 shows a model certificate for the verification of existing installations where you can list deviations from the Standard it is then up to the client whether they act upon it.

 

[Grangewood]

Thats great, I will speak with the client and explain my observations. I don't insist on new installs without reason, the site has a large number of employees so I obviously need to put the Pros and cons for the New System. I know the Standards are not Statutory but if you don't follow them, I know who would be in the firing line for blame.
Thank you all for your comments.

 

[westward10]

The standards may not be statutory in themselves but there are statutory requirements which must be adhered to one being The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. It is a legal requirement to carry out a fire risk assessment under this Order and part of this assessment will include the provision of safety systems one being emergency lighting.

 

[Strima]

As with any installation you can only make recommendations after a inspection and testing have been carried out to verify the state of it.

 

[Grangewood]

Yes thats my thoughts entirely, I understand the requirements of the Fire Safety Reform Act, The Fire Alarm System is currently managed by a Large National Company but for some strange reason the company have not adopted the emergency lighting side of the business. Perhaps it's the costing, but I noted the Building has been altered but the Plans have not been updated in respect of the Fire Alarm points etc and would probably make enquiries beforehand as to whether they are still contracted with the Fire Alarm company.
As stated I have only recently completed this Training and do not want to make errors in the preparation stage of putting in a quote.

Thank you all for the advice.

 

[Nigel]

The standards regarding BS5266 and others are not statutory. An emergency lighting system can be specified by the client or enforcing authorities. You are merely there to ensure what does exist is compliant or note deviations from the relevant standards. It is up to the client to specify the standard of the system they are using. Of course it would need to comply with insurance and enforcing authorities such as building control but my take on it is it is not my personal responsibility to insist on a particular standard. As stated do the annual test and ensure recording of testing is in place and a responsible person does the necessary tests as apt.

Yes anyone can choose what they want to install. However it will be the Responsible Person that will need to answer for that in court.

No RP is ever going to not want BS5266 used as a minimum. Yes the FRA may state where the installation needs to go above BS5266 but never will someone advise not meeting BS5266 as a minimum.

 

[The Ghost]

The point I am making to the OP is it is not his responsibility to specify the system. If he certificates and notes deviations then it is up to the responsible person to take action on the OP's findings and perhaps recommendations. However I would not recommend a system as I am not capable of doing a fire risk assessment and I would hazard neither is the OP.

 

[Nigel]

The point I am making to the OP is it is not his responsibility to specify the system. If he certificates and notes deviations then it is up to the responsible person to take action on the OP's findings and perhaps recommendations. However I would not recommend a system as I am not capable of doing a fire risk assessment and I would hazard neither is the OP.

The FRA would only detail emergency lighting cover over and above BS5266.

It is completely the responsibility of the person carrying out the maintenance to highlight where the installation falls short of the Standard and also where it falls short of the FRA, if there is one which is unlikely. Especially upon take over of the system like the Op is doing now.

 

[The Ghost]

Master of stating the obvious @essex