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another problem with theses compressors that nobody has mentioned, is that if volt drop is excessive due to long cable run or undersized cable, they refuse to start and the windings burn out.

A good point. This is common. It also ages garden tool motors, electric drills, etc, if then are run on long extension leads. Shortest and heaviest duty leads extend the working life of portable mains-powered motorised tools (etc). Washing machines (etc) should be on a 2.5 ring or 4mm radial imho. A higher impedance not only causes voltage drop, but also encourages excessive sparking at the motor if it has brushes due to back-emfs not being damped adequately by the higher that ideal supply impedance. You can fit an X2 rated 10 or 15 uF capacitor across the remote connection L-N if you have to use a long lead or feeder. That damps the sparking and removes the excessive voltage spikes.
 
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another problem with theses compressors that nobody has mentioned, is that if volt drop is excessive due to long cable run or undersized cable, they refuse to start and the windings burn out.

Indeed, and this can also be caused by poor contact (as evidenced by the reported sparking) in the socket.

Some compressors have a valve which can (should) be used to reduce the load on the motor on startup to help combat the potentially fatal (for the motor) startup stall.

Mine does (also a unit for which a 16A circuit is "recommended" but which it is heavily implied can run off a 13A plug!) and there are dire warnings about the warranty consequences of failing to employ said decompression valve on startup as required in the instruction manual. (Obviously I appreciate that no real man ever feels the need to read one of these but just for a moment suspend your disbelief and imagine that somebody once did. Just out of idle curiosity for example. :eek:)

To be slightly clearer - I think what the instructions are really saying is that it is imperative that one ensures that the unloader valve is operated manually prior to initial startup just in case the unit was shutdown without this valve having had the chance to complete its cycle and depressurise the outlet tube attached to the compressor as the motor does not have the grunt to start up cold against the (possibly not so residual) pressure that might still be trapped in this tube.
 
Although these are often done for rental properties it would be highly unusual for the landlord to give the tenant a copy of it.

However the tenant can request to see it if it does exist, and the landlord can't refuse a reasonable request such as this.
 
Mr Hughes,

I have sympathy for you, as I moved recently and had a not dissimilar problem.

The kitchen has a gas hob that has only two working electric ignitors and in fairness the landlord has said that he will resolve that issue - maybe a replacement hob. Now personally we prefer an electric hob, so I agreed with the landlord that if we supply the hob, he will let me fit it. So far so good, however....

When I pulled the oven unit out, I find that some **** has installed 2.5 T&E when the house was rewired 5 years ago, and the hob requires a 27A supply. The circuit MCB has been downrated to 20A

Speak to the landlord and tell him that his cooker circuit is not suitable and will need an upgrade, and offer to do the work. However the landlord's Agent has told him in no uncertain terms never to allow a tenant to do any work whatsoever.

So on Monday the landlord's electrician shows up - only an hour and a half late - tells me that it is fine to use 2.5 T&E on a cooker circuit on the basis as the Landlord must have agreed to this when the oven and hob were installed. He decides it will take a day and a half to do the work and obviously the landlord's view on the cost quoted is why should he pay for us wanting an electric hob. I am pretty certain based on the conversations that this is the electrician who fitted this arrangement

Now I have never seen a cooker cct ever wired in to less than a 30 or 45 Amp supply and without a copy of the 17th or I cannot confirm what the requirement is for Cooker circuits and whether or not there is sufficient grounds to claim that it should have been installed to facilitate a high demand cooker. As I see it the cct MCB has been downrated and although not ideal, there is no safety issue here.

Currently I am trying to negotiate that I do the work and the landlords electrician do the testing.

Frankly it leaves a poor taste in the mouth but I am sitting with an electric hob and a wife who does not like gas. Irrespective of that I am going to have to spend my time and money bringing the cooker cct up to the required standard when this is something I should never have to do.

On the basis that the electrician turned up without a MFM and left his voltage tester at a previous job, and so worked live on the other repair jobs I wonder what other little gems await.

Unfortunately the landlord thinks the world to this long established electrician, who from what I gather has not even brought himself up-to-date with the new 18th Edition, and who charges a lot of money for crap like that.

So my friend you have my sympathies and unless you pay for it yourself or can reach an agreement with the landlord you may have to find somewhere else - or get a small generator

The regulations don't specify anything about the size of circuit for a cooker, other than that any circuit should have an ocpd suitable for the required current. Its perfectly normal to put a 20A circuit in for an electric oven, and if there were seperate electric oven and hob I would put a 20A circuit for the oven and usually 32A for the hob.

When you rent a property you view it before you make an offer on it, that is the time to see if the property meets your needs. To rent a property to meet your needs and then expect the landlord to agree to let you change the property to suit yourself is daft.

As for wanting to replace a gas hob with electric, I personally think you're mad, gas hobs are far superior to electric for cooking on.
 
....

As for wanting to replace a gas hob with electric, I personally think you're mad, gas hobs are far superior to electric for cooking on.
Not these days, induction hobs are far superior to gas for cooking on.
 
Not these days, induction hobs are far superior to gas for cooking on.
A couple of bad winters my gas tank outside froze, stopping me from cooking. So I ripped out the gas hob and changed it for induction a few years ago.
 
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Not these days, induction hobs are far superior to gas for cooking on.

Really? I've never cooked on an induction hob so can't really comment, but do they have the infinite adjustment and reaction speed of gas hobs?
I know a few chefs, including my sister, who all agree that electric hobs are inferior.
 
Not these days, induction hobs are far superior to gas for cooking on.
A couple of bad winters my gas tank outside froze, stopping me from cooking. So I ripped out the gas hob and changed it for induction a few years ago.
Really? I've never cooked on an induction hob so can't really comment, but do they have the infinite adjustment and reaction speed of gas hobs?
I know a few chefs, including my sister, who all agree that electric hobs are inferior.
Induction is extremely responsive.
 
Really? I've never cooked on an induction hob so can't really comment, but do they have the infinite adjustment and reaction speed of gas hobs?
I know a few chefs, including my sister, who all agree that electric hobs are inferior.
Induction is a lot quicker to heat things than gas, and a lot more controlled.
 
Has advantage of no flame as well ,
, re-heat a stainless tea pot - No problem !
Is a stainless steel tea pot magnetic? If not, an induction hob is unlikely to heat it at all.
 
It actually likes a bit of resistance .
(Hence copper bottomed pans are a No No)
--and all that inertia spoils responsiveness--

Indeed.

Copper - too good a shorted turn (though even they have some resistance of course :)).
 
Not these days, induction hobs are far superior to gas for cooking on.
I prefer to cook using a gas hob and an ordinary electric oven. Induction hobs are very energy efficient but the high-frequency EMFs around the hob that the cook is exposed to when it is in use can even exceed the very high ICNIRP maximum LF EMF exposure levels. Such exposure IS associated with the promotion and probably initiation (causal) of various cancers. I would not want any of my family regularly cooking with one.

(As well as being an electrical & electronics engineer, I am also a Trustee of Children with Cancer UK, the largest UK Charity for Child and Young Adult (to age 24) cancer - we research into the causes and treatment of cancer and also fund some welfare work).
 
I prefer to cook using a gas hob and an ordinary electric oven. Induction hobs are very energy efficient but the high-frequency EMFs around the hob that the cook is exposed to when it is in use can even exceed the very high ICNIRP maximum LF EMF exposure levels. Such exposure IS associated with the promotion and probably initiation (causal) of various cancers. I would not want any of my family regularly cooking with one.

(As well as being an electrical & electronics engineer, I am also a Trustee of Children with Cancer UK, the largest UK Charity for Child and Young Adult (to age 24) cancer - we research into the causes and treatment of cancer and also fund some welfare work).

Interesting.

I have just been reading up on induction hobs as a result of my interest being piqued by this thread and it is claimed (of course!) that the hobs do not emit dangerous radiation.
 
I prefer to cook using a gas hob and an ordinary electric oven. Induction hobs are very energy efficient but the high-frequency EMFs around the hob that the cook is exposed to when it is in use can even exceed the very high ICNIRP maximum LF EMF exposure levels. Such exposure IS associated with the promotion and probably initiation (causal) of various cancers. I would not want any of my family regularly cooking with one.

(As well as being an electrical & electronics engineer, I am also a Trustee of Children with Cancer UK, the largest UK Charity for Child and Young Adult (to age 24) cancer - we research into the causes and treatment of cancer and also fund some welfare work).

Could you please direct me to the research papers proving this?

I have read up a lot on the subject, and all evidence I can find is non conclusive or claiming the contrary.

I wasn't researching for the purpose of an induction cooker, but the principal of EMF is the same.
 
but the high-frequency EMFs around the hob that the cook is exposed to when it is in use can even exceed the very high ICNIRP maximum LF EMF exposure levels. Such exposure IS associated with the promotion and probably initiation (causal) of various cancers.

This seems contradictory, you appear to be saying that the high frequency emissions exceed the low frequency (LF) limits?

'IS associated' is a bit of an odd phrase to choose, even if research proves that there isn't a link then it would still be associated with the subject, it would just be that the association is that it has been disproved.
 
...... high-frequency EMFs around the hob that the cook is exposed to when it is in use can even exceed the very high ICNIRP maximum LF EMF exposure levels.....
a) My parents have a similar suspicion of Microwaves
, but they struggle to penetrate human tissue as well .
(Eye cataracts are probably a legitimate worry)
b) Returning to induction , pan sizing must pay an important part in stray fields.
c) A little bit of distance soon diminishes risk.
 

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