EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[elektrisien]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

55 days of EU contributions will full the NHS deficit ....yea, it's that simple. If so why do we have a NHS deficit in the first place ? The EU contributions makes up about 1 % of the UK's annual budget. Do you think saving that will make any difference? If you start throwing the facts on the table ...The kippers fall flat on their faces. Mostly they have a very simplistic view of things. They can solve all the country's problems in a day ....it's just so simple. If only ....

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

55 days of EU contributions will full the NHS deficit ....yea, it's that simple. If so why do we have a NHS deficit in the first place ? The EU contributions makes up about 1 % of the UK's annual budget. Do you think saving that will make any difference? If you start throwing the facts on the table ...The kippers fall flat on their faces. Mostly they have a very simplistic view of things. They can solve all the country's problems in a day ....it's just so simple. If only ....

You've lost me. I never mentioned the NHS...

 

[elektrisien]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

As for kicking all EU migrants back to Europe....what about the approximate 2 million Brits living in the EU. ( Wikipedia ). Won't they be kicked backed to the UK ?

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

As for kicking all EU migrants back to Europe....what about the approximate 2 million Brits living in the EU. ( Wikipedia ). Won't they be kicked backed to the UK ?

I never mentioned that either.

If, and I suggest if you do some homework, I think you will find more Brits living in Europe living off their own pensions than working.

EDIT: are you worried you will be sent back to SA?

 

[elektrisien]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My point is just. ....it's not so simple and easy. People should make an informed choice on all the facts. In the 60's or 70's, I am not sure, the UK had to apply 3 times to join the European Economic Area. They were denied twice. They were surely not doing very well on their own, otherwise they would not have applied for membership .....

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Have you had a bad day Elektrisien?

 

[elektrisien]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

No. I have residence here and hold a Dutch passport. Family keeps me here otherwise I would have been long gone. As far as I know South Africa is not in the EU. But it's still a very nice place to visit and maybe even live ....

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My point is just. ....it's not so simple and easy. People should make an informed choice on all the facts. In the 60's or 70's, I am not sure, the UK had to apply 3 times to join the European Economic Area. They were denied twice. They were surely not doing very well on their own, otherwise they would not have applied for membership .....

and my point is that the EEC was a very good move. This did all that Europe needed, but then the Brusseles "elite" decided they had to meddle more and more.

EEC yes, EU and Federal Europe stretching further and further, with ALL new entrants having to join the Euro - no way.

The EU, in its current form is dead. If it had not been for the Germans the EU economy would have died years ago. The biggest beneficiary of the Euro is Germany as it makes their exports cheaper. Southern Europe has been "sacrificed" to prop up the Germans...

 

[elektrisien]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Not a bad day ....but I am getting annoyed with certain people taking us all for monkeys and not giving the facts. This is quite an important decision and will affect the UK for decades to come. What if your kids want to move to Spain and they can't in 20 years time ? I myself can't see a future for a normal wage earning person in the UK. Everything is just to expensive. I will have to move somewhere cheaper, preferably in Europe.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Not a bad day ....but I am getting annoyed with certain people taking us all for monkeys and not giving the facts. This is quite an important decision and will affect the UK for decades to come. What if your kids want to move to Spain and they can't in 20 years time ? I myself can't see a future for a normal wage earning person in the UK. Everything is just to expensive. I will have to move somewhere cheaper, preferably in Europe.

I quite agree. The UK's cost of living crisis is directly related to the housing shortage and the cost of rent and/or mortgages for people today.

The UK hasn't built enough houses since the early 1970's and things are only going to get worse as the shortage grows even more acute every year.

I fear for my kids future, as they will have debts from University, high rent to pay whilst trying to buy a property AND save for a pension............... something has to change

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The UK pays a vast amount out and what it get back is dictated to us as to who gets it and why, the EU use this power to create a dependence on them and a biased of companies and media etc receiving such funding, there ultimate goal is to create a EU state and to ensure this happens it need to ensure its members rely on been part of the EU too much, this is done in stealth and tactics - create laws that strip industries of profits then give them EU funding to plug the gap, the EU loses nothing here but gains a dependence on staying a member.

If we leave we then have 350million extra in our pockets per week and we can still comfortable pay any EU funding, subsidies, donations, investments at the same level direct that are been received and still have a healthy pot, we are one off the biggest contributers and the more the EU expands to poorer nations the more we will have to give and the more we will attract uncontrolled Immigration that directly effect your wages - in the last 20yrs since the doors were opened by the Blair legacy most of our base industries have been hit by a double whammy - not only has massive pressure been put on our schools, NHS and other services but with the cheaper labour coming in we have seen wages driven down across the board. Another issue is the UK is been sucked dry of its wealth to prop up poorer nations and this is not reflected in the contributions mentioned above, take Romania for example where they are getting jobs here and receiving wages and benefits up to 10x that of there own country, does this money earned in the UK benefit the UK - NO! most are under the Tax threshold and if you go out to Romania you will see massive estates rising of luxury houses and appartments which is proping up the growth of Romania's wealth and we all are directly paying for it be it in stealth with depreciated wages and cut-backs implemented by goverments.

Considering there is quite a list of poorer nations on the cards to join the EU as there are no more rich ones then this can only impact directly on how much we contribute, how many come here and the direct and indirect effects mentioned above.

If we leave then we are in a much stronger position to negotiate better trade deals with the EU, anyone with basic marketing knowledge will understand the 5th largest economy in the world (UK) will not get slapped with silly trade tarrifs as they sell a hell of a lot more to us than we do to them, they would be cutting their own throats in doing so, plus we have the benefit on all trade restrictions released and we can then trade with who we want and that means competition for our trade which is another reason why we won't be subjected to any tarrifs or been forced to allow free movement like these smaller economies have been forced to agree to.

 

[UNG]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The Turks won't join for a very long time if ever ....nobody wants them in. Kipper propaganda.

On what do you base your comment. I reckon 2 - 5 years and they will be in

For me there is just too much uncertainty. Nobody knows what will happen after Brexit.

I agree in or out it is difficult to see beyond the uncertainty of both options who knows what the EU juggernaut's next moves are

Almost all the papers are controlled by one or two people. They are heavily opposed to the EU for whatever reason ....so all you read every day is the EU this, the EU that ....influencing people.

They are not influencing me and dare I say a lot of other people

Nobody ever mentions the good the EU is doing, and there are lots.

Please enlighten us it is difficult to see beyond the corruption and dodgy accounting

I cannot see any advantage for myself outside the EU ....We will take a hit economically for sure.

We'll take a hit if we stay as we will be paying for any further expansion of the EU

If I must hear this saving 55 million a day one more time , I will have a coronary. Most of the money paid to the EU come back one way or another.

Most of the money paid to the EU stays with the EU it still costs around £35 million a day that we don't get back

Lots of charities, universities, children's playgroups, farmers etc. are partially funded by the EU. If we leave we will have to fund it ourselves. When I was made redundant during the recession, the job centre send me on a 17th edition course at my local college. That was funded by the EU to help the unemployed.

You seem to be taken in by all the BS the UK could fund it and still have money left over. The EU is always looking for ways to relieve us of money at every opportunity only recently a levy was proposed on petrol and diesel to pay for the migrants

Clearly some people only hear what they want to hear. .....

I wonder who they are ?

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Not a bad day ....but I am getting annoyed with certain people taking us all for monkeys and not giving the facts. This is quite an important decision and will affect the UK for decades to come. What if your kids want to move to Spain and they can't in 20 years time ? I myself can't see a future for a normal wage earning person in the UK. Everything is just to expensive. I will have to move somewhere cheaper, preferably in Europe.

So by that statement then does that mean non of us can move to Australia, America, Canada etc because at the last count many brits do just that and they are not in the EU, yes to work there you need a permit and to emigrate you need to bring something to the countries like work skills they are short of or a business that could see you employing many of their citizens, thats how a country protects it economy and its services, something we are not able to do and the evidence of the damage its caused us is everywhere.

You mention the media been biased and anti EU but you forgot to mention the biggest media outlet namely the BBC that is playing a very tactful EU 'IN' biased campaign while petending to play the fair reporting unbiased card, but hmmm that won't be anything to do with the 10million they received from the EU would it?

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The decision to stay or leave is a complex conundrum, and even the most renowned economists, notorious politicians and respected grandees can't agree. Truth is nobody knows what will happen if we leave or if we stay. And I don't care which camp your in, whatever we decided, it ill be a leap into the dark.

When we last voted for this 41 years ago, there was a turnout of 65%, if you gauge that against a turnout of 78% in the Feb 74 GE, when Labour promised a referendum on the matter. Since then, the turnout for each GE has slowly been dropping with just a little more interest in recent elections.

So lets hope, we all turn out in greater numbers on the 23rd June.

Me and the missus have gone for a postal vote, 'cos we will be in our Anderson Shelter at the bottom of the garden, waiting for Armageddon. :smug:

 

[Spoon]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

.... 'cos we will be in our Anderson Shelter at the bottom of the garden, waiting for Armageddon. :smug:

a bit OTT. We have made a lean-to in the living room using a door. Seen it I a PAS pdf. It protects you against nuclear bombs...

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

The decision to stay or leave is a complex conundrum, and even the most renowned economists, notorious politicians and respected grandees can't agree. Truth is nobody knows what will happen if we leave or if we stay. And I don't care which camp your in, whatever we decided, it ill be a leap into the dark.

When we last voted for this 41 years ago, there was a turnout of 65%, if you gauge that against a turnout of 78% in the Feb 74 GE, when Labour promised a referendum on the matter. Since then, the turnout for each GE has slowly been dropping with just a little more interest in recent elections.

So lets hope, we all turn out in greater numbers on the 23rd June.

Me and the missus have gone for a postal vote, 'cos we will be in our Anderson Shelter at the bottom of the garden, waiting for Armageddon. :smug:

I agree in that both directions are somewhat a leap in the dark but the the OUT campaign has one advantage albiet they are making a poor job of using it and are been dragged into the same fear campaign that the IN are clearly using, the OUT has the advantage in that we have 40yrs of evidence of the positives and negatives of been in the EU where all the IN campaign lack any real facts of 'what if we leave' so choose to play the doom card which has no real evidential value which now is getting very silly - yep that's it Europe will resort to war amongst itself if we left totally forgetting the fact we as is America are part of NATO which is really the ruling force when it comes to these matters and guess what.. you don't need to be in the EU to be in NATO - damn that's ruined the next instalment of the Terminator series :/.

 

[Midwest]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I agree in that both directions are somewhat a leap in the dark but the the OUT campaign has one advantage albiet they are making a poor job of using it and are been dragged into the same fear campaign that the IN are clearly using, the OUT has the advantage in that we have 40yrs of evidence of the positives and negatives of been in the EU where all the IN campaign lack any real facts of 'what if we leave' so choose to play the doom card which has no real evidential value which now is getting very silly - yep that's it Europe will resort to war amongst itself if we left totally forgetting the fact we as is America are part of NATO which is really the ruling force when it comes to these matters and guess what.. you don't need to be in the EU to be in NATO - damn that's ruined the next instalment of the Terminator series :/.

I suppose you could turn that argument around by saying, because we have been IN for the last 43 years the OUT campaign has no idea of knowing of what it's going to be like.

The war thing is a bit of a ruse thing, may have prevented conflicts in the past, economic union, but not in todays world. Although, Turkey wants to do it upmost to join.

Off to the supermarket, to stock up on tinned food.

 

[UNG]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My point is just. ....it's not so simple and easy. People should make an informed choice on all the facts. In the 60's or 70's, I am not sure, the UK had to apply 3 times to join the European Economic Area. They were denied twice. They were surely not doing very well on their own, otherwise they would not have applied for membership .....

Yes there were some dark days in the 70's with a bleak outlook on offer was a trading club that would be free of import / export tariffs and restrictions the reality is there are restrictions because of EU directives and the requirements of individual states in there implementation

Not a bad day ....but I am getting annoyed with certain people taking us all for monkeys and not giving the facts. This is quite an important decision and will affect the UK for decades to come. What if your kids want to move to Spain and they can't in 20 years time ? I myself can't see a future for a normal wage earning person in the UK. Everything is just to expensive. I will have to move somewhere cheaper, preferably in Europe.

So who are these "certain" people as neither side is giving us any tangible facts apparently were doomed if we stay and doomed if we don't.
Does anybody even know the full facts of Cameron's unratified "reform" deal that from what I can see doesn't actually reform any part of the EU for the long term
If you look at the USSR as was is this the future of the EU and an ultimately it's demise
Leaving the EU will not prevent anyone moving to wherever they want to go to, it didn't before the EU and there is no reason why it should if we leave

I think you are getting annoyed for all the wrong reasons there is plenty of info out there if you choose to look for it and if you think people are going to blindly vote to leave then you need to rethink what you are saying as I know many well informed people who are ready to vote leave

 

[telectrix]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

the EU is the biggest con since Hitler conned Chamberlain in 1938. no, even bigger. at least Hitler didn't promise so much but gave back nothing.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Are we actually legitimately in the EU or was we cheated into joining, here is how we actually ended up in the EU and who IMHO commited an act of treason and breach the very rights of the electorate by signing us up. Here's a snippet about what happened when we apparently joined the EU.

Many constitutional experts believe that Britain isn’t actually a member of the European Union since our apparent entry was in violation of British law and was, therefore invalid.
In enacting the European Communities Bill through an ordinary vote in the House of Commons, Ted Heath’s Government breached the constitutional convention which requires a prior consultation of the people (either by a general election or a referendum) on any measure involving constitutional change. The general election or referendum must take place before any related parliamentary debate. (Britain has no straightforward written constitution. But, the signing of the Common Market entrance documents was, without a doubt, a breach of the spirit of our constitution.)

Just weeks before the 1970 general election which made him Prime Minister, Edward Heath declared that it would be wrong if any Government contemplating membership of the European Community were to take this step without `the full hearted consent of Parliament and people’.
However, when it came to it Heath didn’t have a referendum because opinion polls at the time (1972) showed that the British people were hugely opposed (by a margin of two to one) against joining the Common Market. Instead, Heath merely signed the documents that took us into what became the European Union on the basis that Parliament alone had passed the European Communities Bill of 1972.