Posting a message to the forum will remove the above advertisement

Discuss Few questions for an electrical installation in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

Please make sure you checkout our forum sponsors, many do discounts for members and, they keep the forum free to use.
  1. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    Hi

    Firstly I don't have any electrical qualifications, but I am undertaking an installation which will be certified by the local council, however I have to get it to first fix before they will come out, so want to ensure I get it right first time.

    Installation is in a utility building, with its own mini consumer unit, 63a main fuse, with a 32a and 6a breakers (if I remember right, I'll update this if I've remembered wrong). I've already installed all of the conduit, 20mm pvc. Wanting to use conduit cable, as T+E would be too tight of a squeeze in places.

    Load will be minimal, going for 1.5mm for lighting (LED), however not sure what to use for main wire in from house and for the sockets circuit. Fuse where I'll be connecting to in the house consumer unit is 32a.

    2 main loads on circuits will be tumble dryer and an electric heater, both around 2kw. Also considering a solar battery storage at some point in future if that impacts. What size cable would be required?

    To summarize, need to know

    Cable size for house to mini consumer unit

    Cable size for sockets circuit.

    Let me know if you need more info.

    Much appreciated in advance

    Mike
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  2. Wilko
    Offline

    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi Mike, if you are attempting an electrical installation you should get a copy of BS7671 and have a read. This will answer some of your questions and get you thinking about things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Grant webber
    Offline

    Grant webber EF Member

    Location:
    Surrey
    Business Name:
    GW Electrical
    The fee your paying to the council to certify the work you may aswell put towards paying a sparks to do it for you. Least you know it will be done correctly then, it doesnt sound like a diy job to me
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. Gavin John Hyde
    Offline

    Gavin John Hyde the lights are on but nobody is home

    Location:
    Kingswood
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services
    I will come straight out and say I am sceptical and think you might be a DIY'er doing a notifiable job and just saying you have told building control and come on here looking for step by step guidance.
    Not being funny but the cost of getting a qualified electrician in to do the job properly and the cost of notifying building control won't be much different. a non qualified person going via the council building control will typically pay around £400+ in fees. then you have materials on top.
    its probably no more expensive to get a electrician in they will do it properly, certify and notify it for you.
    So don't go working beyond your abilities and call a professional in.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Best put up your location and pay a local spark for their time and advice

    Just saying
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    from the questions you are asking, i very much doubt that you are proficient enough to undertake this work. it's a lot more than installing a few cables and fixtures. there's calculations involving maths, cable ratings dependant on the installation method, and a lot more. this is why it takes 5 -7 years to train as a sparks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Not sure that will help someone with no qualifications come to think of it the same can be said of people with qualifications :eek:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    This isn't a complicated install, and it's being checked and signed off by a part p certified person, so I don't see the issue?

    I just need to know what size cable to use for the 2 elements I've noted, and that should be all I'll need.
     
  9. Gavin John Hyde
    Offline

    Gavin John Hyde the lights are on but nobody is home

    Location:
    Kingswood
    Business Name:
    Sulis Electrical Services
    I thought you said it was a building control signing it off? normally they are more than just part p. part p means bugger all when you break it down., my local council insist on using known and experienced electricians with nvq3 2394/2395 etc etc for building control ordered inspections. the electrician working for the council is in effect a temp. building inspector and is covered by the council and not his own business liability.

    Also, I sure as heck wouldnt sign off on other peoples work. only stroma and i think napit allow certain assessed sparks to do 3rd party sign offs.

    Also maybe I am wrong but i think as part of 3rd party sign offs you are meant to get the design and plans approved by the 3rd party electrician before starting, then at first fix and finally 2nd fix and initial verification for certs to be issued.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    I rang BCO and asked whether I could do the install myself, they knew I wasn't qualified, and they said yes, but I would have to have the electrician who works for the council come out and certify, which costs £360, which seemed fine given the few prices I'd had for other jobs.
     
  11. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    If, and I say if building control's are checking and signing this off they will , or should inspect at each stage ...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    You are not comparing apples with Apple's. £360 plus VAT is for them just coming to inspect..... No advice, nothing else
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Old Old x 1
  13. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    OK, and I assume design is a stage? I'll give them a ring on Monday and find out for sure
     
  14. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    It's £360 Inc VAT. And this isn't BCO, this is the council's own sparky
     
  15. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Design won't be a stage.....
     
  16. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    OK, like I said, I'll give BCO a ring Monday and double check.
     
  17. Vortigern
    Offline

    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    I think you may be forgetting the extra visits when they have to come back after not signing it off. As you say it shouldn't be an issue as it is only two circuits. That rather flies in the face of the information you have been given if you read carefully. You have been told that it is more than two circuits there are other background factors which are too complex to lay out here. For instance do you have a TN-C-S system or a TNS or possibly (rarely) a TT? Are you aware of the implications of exporting PME to other locations? Can you calculate the volt drop for the run? As stated there is more to it the a "couple of circuits" Now... I am not decrying the DIY attempt and personally I am all for you doing this and applaud your sense of adventure for want of a better word. If I were to do the work for you I would have to check with ESF whether your tumble dryer is subject to recall, have you done that? Tumble dryers have a terrible safety record and quite often burn out cabling. Anyway to answer your question, usually SWA is used to supply outbuildings. Terminating SWA is a skill you would have to master to install it. It would need to be buried circa 18 inches underground and properly marked and the correct gradient of stone laid around it. You could use 2.5mm² or 4 mm ² on a 32a MCB. You have not asked about RCD which is rather worrying as it may indicate you are starting from a point of knowledge which is inadequate. Where are you going to use the conduit just in the utility room? because outside you need to use the right colour. Now, again I am all for you doing this, but this is what it involves. Quite apart from BC signing it off all these points will have to be addressed and of course you are the person who will rely on the safety of the design and of course your family. Now...do you want to call an electrician? or are you going to brave it?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    OK, like I said, I'll give BCO a ring Monday and double check.
    The building is joined to the house. All conduit is internal, no part of the installation will run external.

    Main CU has RCD protection, as does the mini CU which I bought for the utility. I didn't ask about RCD as I'm well aware of it.

    Dryer hasn't been bought yet.

    I really don't see the problem in me doing this if a professional is going to check it, test it and sign it off? I'm just doing the labour really.

    Is it really this complex? The other jobs we've had done were as simple as anything, hence why I thought I'd do this one this way.
     
  19. MikeGT729
    Offline

    MikeGT729 Guest

    Just looked up your many acronyms...

    As far as I can see we have a TN-S config with no PME
     
  20. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    You have no discrimination between rcds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  21. Vortigern
    Offline

    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Well yes and no. Yes it is, and no as it is standard fare for an electrician. As you say there is no distance and yes it does sound very straightforward. And once again I am all for you going for it. Please don't be discouraged by the nature of what I have introduced. Just trying to let you know that it may not be that complex but equally is is not quite as simple as one could easily assume. What I have talked about is standard consideration in designing a circuit and as we do it almost everyday it is one of those things that is easy, once you know how.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  22. RWJ
    Offline

    RWJ 8,330 day wonder Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    East Anglia
    Who cares it's only electric any Pratt can do that...... Shall I call the fire service now or later?
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  23. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    I think these circuits are so rudimentary most electricians would not perform any calculations however this whole thing is misconceived with no discrimination between rcds and overcurrent protective devices.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    You can lead a horse to water ......
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  25. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    So this Sparky is a council Sparky? is he doing this privately, or on behalf of the council?
     
  26. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    MikeGT the members having given advice here, have justifiable concerns over your ability to carry out this work safely and correctly. Unlike plastering, plumbing of water systems etc, electricity is obviously potentially dangerous to the installer and end user, as opposed to poor quality workmanship or water damage. As you have no experience or even practical skills as an electrician, a project of even this size, could put you or your family members at risk.

    I'm a member of avforums, where members there undertake similar projects, for cinema rooms or even show casing whole house renovations. Most are sensible or perhaps realistic & recognise their limitations, and use the appropriate trades and carry out some of the easy take themselves. As a young man, I use to service my own vehicles, now days I leave that to persons who have the skills, knowledge & tools to carry out the work safely & correctly, I want my brakes to work when I need them.

    If you are determined to go ahead with this, you should speak in depth with your LBC, to see how the installation would be inspected & tested as you proceed, for example the hole for footings has to be inspected & approved by LBC, before the concrete is poured. In my experience LBC, have little dealings & experience with people carry out their own DIY electrical installation, so the process might not be straightforward.

    You might find Electrical Safety First web site a useful read;
    Electrical Safety First - The UK's Electrical Safety Experts - http://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  27. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    and i used to think guys from oxfordshire had trouble stringing a few words into a sentence, let alone 4 paragraphs. :D:D:D
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  28. Andy78
    Offline

    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    So in short...
    "Hi, I don't respect your trade enough to hire someone to do the job as it is easy, but can you tell me how to do it please, and for free ?"

    :laughing::tearsofjoy: :fist::sweatdrops:

    If someone had the rudeness and cheek to ring me up and ask that I'd laugh them off the phone with a few choice insults thrown in. Why should asking on the internet be any different ?
     
    • Winner Winner x 7
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    there are several internet sites offering "ask an expert" (e.g. solicitor). first thing yo need to do is enter your credit/debit card details, as the advice is not given free. maybe a few of us should start one.
     
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  30. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I'm a pretty good cook as well :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  31. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    You sure your name isn't MORSE?
     
  32. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    a budding Lee Child and Gordom Ramsey in 1 package, whatever next? :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Midwest
    Offline

    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Crikes, Statler and Waldorf are ganging up on me. Still, soon time for their lunchtime nap :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  34. KennyKen
    Offline

    KennyKen Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Australia
    "Firstly I don't have any electrical qualifications but....."


    *And I'll stop you there*
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  35. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Exactly the right approach to this sort of post
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  36. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    How are you Kenny? not heard that much from you been busy have you?
     
  37. RWJ
    Offline

    RWJ 8,330 day wonder Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    East Anglia
    How hard do you reckon it is to build a nuclear reactor? It's only splitting uranium atoms to generate steam, can't be too complicated
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  38. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Don't the scams do a 5 week course for that sort of thing, can't be that difficult, can it?
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  39. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    atom splitting is easy, you just need a microscopic version of a log splitter. and you don't get splinters.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  40. Vortigern
    Offline

    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Now now let us not forget that the blurb to the forum is Free electrical advice and that is what we are doing here, no need to rip the guy a new whatsitcalled is there.

    "Gain free Electrical Advice from the UK's friendliest electrical advice website, Electricians Forums. Where Professional, DIY and Auto Electricians Talk and share advice and help each other out"
    So surely let us act in the spirit of that no? Don't worry about me I'm thick skinned!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  41. telectrix
    Offline

    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    i agree with your sentiments, but the line has to be drawn somewhere. like, should we advise a DIYer to tackle jobs beyond his/her skill level, where lack of knowledge and/or appropriate test equipment may be lacking? how far do we go doing ourselves out of work?
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  42. Vortigern
    Offline

    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    England
    Business Name:
    F.H. Electrical
    Yep I agree it is a fine line to judge @telectrix@telectrix I am very wary of giving advice where it may lead to harm because the person is clearly not capable of the task they are trying to undertake. I think in this case it is purportedly being overseen by a competent person (I guess??) But yeh you are right about doing ourselves out of work. But I still dont think we have to be unkind with it. It seems in this thread and others there is usually a common consensus of not handing on a plate and sage advice as to when the OP needs to get help.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  43. KennyKen
    Offline

    KennyKen Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Australia
    Hey Pete been good mate. Just on my week off. So been busy with the missus and kids. Back on a plane Tuesday. :-(
     
  44. Eckaslike
    Offline

    Eckaslike Active EF Member

    Part P was started to stop unqualified people during Electrical work, but this has not worked, just cost us sparkies extra costs. Would I check & sign off other peoples work for 350 pounds cash, perhaps.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - questions electrical installation Forum Date
Interview questions and tips Industrial Electrician Talk Sep 7, 2017
Couple of questions just run by my thoughts Electrical Forum Sep 7, 2017

Share This Page

  • Electricians Directory Post a Domestic Job Post a Commercial Job