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Discuss Fire rated clips - any suggestions? in the Security Alarms, Door Entry and CCTV (Public) area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Hi. Could anyone advise on the types of fixings / clips they are using to comply with: Wiring systems shall be supported such that they will not be liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire’ (clause 521.10.202). If, for example, there were a couple of runs of twin and earth above an escape route then what method of fixings would now be suitable. Thanks
 
Metal cleats/P clips/ steel saddles. For example PVC conduit should now be secured with steel saddles. Various proprietary clips are now available from wholesalers to fix inside plastic trunking and secure cables within.
 
Saren stuff simple and effective, excellent customer service too. I like how they allow a nice neat installation, and you can screw them in, instead of hammering, which is brilliant where the boards you are fixing to are not well supported.
 
The wording of the regs is 'to prevent premature collapse'
Typically vague!
My view is that this reg is only aimed at surface mounted wiring, and that wiring enclosed by other building elements such as plasterboard are not affected by this. Seems to be the way that the amd3 rule for escape routes was applied.
I think it is fair to say that if another building element has to come down before the wiring, then the wiring hasnt collapsed prematurely.
 
The wording of the regs is 'to prevent premature collapse'
Typically vague!
My view is that this reg is only aimed at surface mounted wiring, and that wiring enclosed by other building elements such as plasterboard are not affected by this. Seems to be the way that the amd3 rule for escape routes was applied.
I think it is fair to say that if another building element has to come down before the wiring, then the wiring hasnt collapsed prematurely.

And cables "slung" above suspended ceilings with little or no clipping....

BUT it would be useful if the BBB actually stated this!
 
The wording of the regs is 'to prevent premature collapse'
Typically vague!
My view is that this reg is only aimed at surface mounted wiring, and that wiring enclosed by other building elements such as plasterboard are not affected by this. Seems to be the way that the amd3 rule for escape routes was applied.
I think it is fair to say that if another building element has to come down before the wiring, then the wiring hasnt collapsed prematurely.
This came up on my 18th and the tutor incorrectly informed us that cables would need supporting above a plasterboard ceiling. However this notion was shot down in flames (excuse the pun) on this forum and a member, cant remember who, posted a section from some IET guidance that clearly stated a plasterboard ceiling is suitable as a means of preventing premature collapse of a wiring system. However there may of course be other regulations that a load of wiring laying on a ceiling would contravene!
 
I was initially confused about these regs and still am somewhat but as mentioned it applies to all wiring systems that are contained within the shell of the space be it a room or corridor etc that is simple to understand. This will include all direct clip, all containment systems and their fixings.
The question is whether it does or doesn't apply to cabling above plasterboard, given that standard plasterboard would only probably resist for about 15/20 mins then premature failure of your wiring systems is easily predictable, the whole reason why we introduce these fire resistance install methods is to protect those going into a building like the fire brigade are not going to get caught up do to premature failure the fixing systems of the cabling, if the cable is run on a void side of a standard plasterboard ceiling then one needs to be considerate of the cable runs and/or how they are fixed. If you have clipped a run of cable along the side of the joist itself above standard plasterboard then I would suggest a fire rated clip still and longer screws than normally required, this then means the cable will remain as long as the joist is in position which is a damn site longer than if plastic clips were used.
Noted these are my opinions based on info I can gather, I am currently doing a renovation but it has 1hr fireboard throughout so I am more relaxed about this approach but still do consider runs more carefully to get me into the habit.

Edit -
PS I will add that cables drilled through joints are going to survive the duration of the joists survival so can be ignored, its just long cable runs on the side of joists above standard plasterboard I was raising issue with.
 
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T&E abov eplasterboard is generally going to be running through holes in joists as well as being clipped along the joists so will generally stay in place if all the clips fail and the plasterboard falls down.
 

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