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Discuss Fixed Ring in Kitchen - Wanted to check my understanding in the DIY Electrical Forum area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. Dave78
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    Dave78 EF Member

    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Hi all, I've just been talking with a kitchen fitting company as we're currently looking at (surprise surprise) getting a new kitchen. Anyway, we are wanting to add in a dishwasher, and also replacing the existing freestanding fridge/freezer with two separate under counter ones.

    I've tried to draw out what is being suggested, given a picture is worth 1000 words and all that. Black is existing, red is what's new. All the wiring is 2.5mm T+E

    As I understand what they are proposing, is to replace the existing back box of two of the existing FCU with a dual back box. Take one of the ring wires into one of the FCU, and the other wire into the other FCU, and then connecting the two together. Thereby effectively adding in an extra FCU to the fixed ring. There was talk about using a MK Grid plus with two switches and two fuses so it'd all fit in a standard 2gang back box - but the idea is the same.

    I understand the adding of the FCU's to the circuit - the logically and physical actions of connecting it all up all make sense. However my concerns are mostly around the loadings all that could put on the circuit. I know we're mostly likely going to have both washing machine and dishwasher on together overnight (according to their spec's they can both pull in 10A) so that's a possible 20A before anything else. I've been trying to find out this afternoon some info on the others.

    I'd rather be able to say now to the kitchen company, nope we have to have an additional circuit, and that all get costing in - than have the kitchen finished and then start having it trip when things are on. And then start having to change circuits etc.

    So could I:
    a) check that is this an ok modification to the circuit for them to be suggesting?
    b) should I be concerned about the loadings of this circuit.

    Thanks all.

    Kitchen Wiring.jpg
     
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  2. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Business Name:
    Wilko Electrics
    Hi Dave and Welcome to the Forum !
    If you want an extra circuit now is definitely the time, it might just cost a bit more. FYI my family kitchen has a similar 32A rfc set up, only with an extra microwave, dryer, toaster, kettle and fridge. I would prefer to have a second circuit myself, but the existing circuit works fine with no problems.
    Can I ask what circuit have you got for the oven?
     
  3. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Business Name:
    None
    Where do all the 13Amp switched sockets for Kitchen use, and Oven supplies fit into your scheme, as all I see are switched fused spurs and and non switched spurs.
     
  4. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    I think he is just showing the part to be altered, seems fine to me.
     
  5. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    I would be very surprised to see any domestic appliance (non cooking) drawing 10A's, it would ruin those pretty economy data sheets they have to provide.

    Who is this kitchen installer?
     
  6. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Business Name:
    None
    Right
     
  7. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    The loading you suggest is unlikely to trip a MCB.

    how old is your fuse board?
     
  8. Dave78
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    Dave78 EF Member

    Location:
    Warwickshire
    Hi Pete, Yes sorry only showed the fixed ring that was to be changed. the 13Amp switched sockets are on a different circuit and the oven is on it's own circuit altogether.
     
  9. Dave78
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    Dave78 EF Member

    Location:
    Warwickshire
    I expect about 20 years old, as guessing (I know should never guess anything) it's the one put in when the house was built about 20 years ago.

    I had been wondering about when the electrical work is done in the kitchen, getting the whole house checked for any other electrical work so it can have a complete clean bill of health.
     
  10. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    you don't need FCUs for each under worktop appliance. a 20A D/P switch is a better option, as each appliance has a 13A fuse in it's plug top.
     
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  11. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Such switches are not tested for the current carrying capacity of a ring final circuit like BS1363 fuse connection units. How would they be a better option.
     
  12. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
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    Telectrix
    the 20A switches will only need to handle the current drawn by 1 appliance, which is fused @ 13A.
     
  13. Des 56
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    Des 56 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Gliese 581C
    This is another old argument where the two sides never the twain shall meet:)

    The 20 amp switch would be a better option if only because it omits one unnecessary fuse from the equation:thumbsup:
    The doubts always expressed about them have ccc unsuitable for a ring are a red herring in my estimation
    The switch contacts may be 20 amp but the actual feed connections are no different to those of a socket,the same brand items are often identical in size/ shape
     
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  14. westward10
    Online

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    It is nothing to do with the switching current but the incoming terminals on the switch which are not tested for ring final circuit requirements.
     
  15. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

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    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    i'm with des. can't see a problem. what if the ring conductors went into a 3 port wago with 1 conductor to the switch terminal?
     
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