Discuss Fixed Ring in Kitchen - Wanted to check my understanding in the DIY Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Sorry westward10, back on topic now

In terms of under counter sockets/connections with built in appliances. What is the general viewpoint between just plugging the appliance into an unswitched socket, and cutting the plug off (assuming it has one) and wiring it into a flex outlet on the wall?

Obviously the second method need a FCU.
 
Personally, if possible I would always plug an appliance into a socket outlet, rather than cutting off plug & wired into flex outlet. This allows the appliance to be easily removed for maintenance & cleaning, by the householder (for example).

However, due to some kitchen designs and lengths of appliance leads, this is not possible. So cutting off the plug top, and using a flex outlet is perhaps the only option.

PS I did ask who the kitchen installer was? If it's the likes of Wren or BQ, get your own electrician, don't use theirs. If it's a local company, use their electricians. ;)
 
I know one of my friends who has some appliances plugged into hard to reach places, just down rates the fuse on the FCU - for example the fridge is plugged in under the worktop with it's as delievered 13A plug, but there's a 10A fuse in the FCU - logic being that the 10A should let go well before the 13A in the plug and therefore much easier to get to in order to replace.
[QUOTE="Dave78, post: 1





Regards a 10 amp fuse in your fcu or plug top
3 and 13 amps are the accepted standards

I believe the Iet and/or the manufacturers had a look at fuses a while back,their conclusion was the time it took to pop fuses in the 1 to 13 amp range was very similar and differences in the times are essentially much the same for all of them
The differences was only enough to justify a 3 amp and 13 amp as being worthwhile ratings as far as any useful difference was concerned
 
Such switches are not tested for the current carrying capacity of a ring final circuit like BS1363 fuse connection units. How would they be a better option.

The terminals of a 20A switch must logically be suitable for 20A, and 20A is the required ccc of the cable used for the ring circuit. This suggests that perhaps the terminals are good for the current does it not?
 
Just to add, looking at an MK fcu and a MK dp switch, the terminals are identical.
 
The terminals of a 20A switch must logically be suitable for 20A, and 20A is the required ccc of the cable used for the ring circuit. This suggests that perhaps the terminals are good for the current does it not?
I don't disagree but ring final circuits are often unbalanced and whilst this maybe negligible and variable it is not impossible for parts of the circuit to have currents in excess of 20A flowing.
 
Just to add, looking at an MK fcu and a MK dp switch, the terminals are identical.
They may well look the same and probably are. I believe BS1363 tests do not subject the terminals to 30/32A but 20A for a constant period of four hours, whether this is a terminal test or a test which includes all components I am not sure. Whether EN60669-1 switches are subjected to the same tests I do not know. Maybe consulting manufacturers and obtaining written guarantees as to whether they are suitable for direct connection to ring final circuits is a step which should be taken.
 
I don't disagree but ring final circuits are often unbalanced and whilst this maybe negligible and variable it is not impossible for parts of the circuit to have currents in excess of 20A flowing.

I should add that as an apprentice I was taught that it's wrong, and I never have fitted a 20A switch on a ring. But the logic is there and I don't think I'd comment on it if I came across it in an installation.
Especially considering the average load on a whole domestic installation rarely more than around 20-30A
 
Hi Dave with the greatest respect , If u put fcu's above counter tops it will make the look of your kitchen accessory cluttered for want of a better word & will look naff . Dont do it . The chances of fuses going minimal / Going away so switchin them off Why ? / With respect your over thinking the worst case senario . What if the RCD trip when your away ? Do you have Tropical fish ? hint hint . If you have washer /dishwasher on over night stagger the start times man ! . In reality having an evenly distrabuted load on a ring main is not that realistic in any situation .
 
Hi Dave with the greatest respect , If u put fcu's above counter tops it will make the look of your kitchen accessory cluttered for want of a better word & will look totaly naff . Dont do it . The chances of fuses going minimal / Going away so switchin them off Why ? / With respect your over thinking the worst case senario . What if the RCD trip when your away ? Do you have Tropical fish ? hint hint . If you have washer /dishwasher on over night stagger the start times man ! . In reality having an evenly distrabuted load on a ring main is not that realistic in any situation .
 
Hi Dave with the greatest respect , If u put fcu's above counter tops it will make the look of your kitchen accessory cluttered for want of a better word & will look totaly naff . Dont do it .

It's a functional room, not a work of art!
 
work of art
noun
noun: work of art; plural noun: works of art
  1. a painting, sculpture, poem, piece of music, or other product , especially one with imaginative or aesthetic appeal.
    • something that is very attractively presented or detailed.
      "even the salad is a work of art" lol
 
I agree with the argument that extra switches above worktop are just un-necessary clutter! Especially for fridges/freezers, what it they're turned off accidentally? Surely a socket located in an adjacent kitchen cabinet is the way, and can simply be spured from a socket on the ring above the worktop. No need for 20A switches or extra fuses and sleepless nights worrying about whether those 20A connections are getting warm....
 
I do a fair few kitchens, and give my customers the options of DP's above work tops or just sockets in adjacent cupboards, only had one recently who went for DP's.

And when customers are paying thousands for glossy kitchen units, granite or composite work tops, wine bars, freezer draws (you get the picture), they are (to them) works of art. Not to be spoiled by faceplates. I think some of them would do without socket outlets, if it weren't for the need to plug in their juicers or baristas machines.

I got DP switches ;)
 
As I have posted before on this subject nearly all the mainstream new house builders have in their specs bank of D.P. grid switches I kept on pointing out to them that these should be located as near as practicably possible to the centre of the kitchen RFC.A lot of it is down to personal taste of the customer As for the ratting of the supply terminals of the D.P. switches this is something only the manufactures & BSI can put to bed.
 
Use switch grids, and have them dp 20 amp switches, get them engraved. If you can pull out your fridge and freezer I would just have an unswitched socket behind it.
 
BS1363 type testing, tests the terminations at 20A.
Single sockets are tested with 14A via the plug and 6A via the terminals at the rear with a total load of 20A on the feed to the socket.
Double sockets are tested with 14A at one socket and 6A on the other.
 

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