Functional earth fly leads and rcbos

[Gavin John Hyde]

Whats peoples approach when dealing with the earth fly leads on RCBOs?
Got a board to fit next week and the bits arrived today. So been busy getting rid of packaging and putting bits together ready and checking its all arrived.
Hager say you can trim the fly lead and nuetrals down if needed as long as you use a suitable ferrule or termination. The supply neutrals arent so much an issue as they are quite thick.
The fly leads are so thin and flexible that i think id struggle to find a decent ferrule or crimped connector to go on the end to then go in the earth bar. Anybody got recommendations for ferrules?
Likewise how do you terminate them?
If i have space i will terminate them on their own in the earth bar. Otherwise i terminate with the corresponding cpc.
Keeping each circuits bits together.
Can be bit awkward with a ring final or 10mm circuit though. So in these instances i put them in the earth bar separately. Just got to be careful when tightening that you get a good grip as its easy for them to go down side of screw and be loose.
The new CU i am installing is only 7 RCBOS in a 10 way board so lots of space to make it look pretty.

 

[Darkwood]

If you cut them down then you will need to crimp them as instructed in both the Regs and the installation guide as you have mentioned, been a while since I done them and they may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer but probably a white or blue ferrule (bootlace) crimp will do...
I would have thought the majority of sparks now should have a ferrule kit as part of their tools, all fine stranded terminations require some form of crimping unless what you are terminating into is specifically designed for fine wire (e.g. - lever style connector). It amazes me tbh how many sparkies do not crimp up the cables when fitting a standard plug top.
If you have yet to build your tool collection up then just leave them as supplied and took them behind the raised dinrail mount if the board design allows you to.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I have more tools than i know what to do with. Some i dont even know what the tool is for other than it looked nice when i bought it.
I have quite arange of crimps and ferrules just none designed for such thin fly leads... I may have to invest in some for future jobs. This time i may just tuck them behind the din rail.

 

[Darkwood]

They can be a stretch on the budget, I have several crimpers myself which total quite a few pennies although I need a few crimpers most sparks would never need in their day to day jobs.

 

[mhar]

Use SBS single module double pole compact rcbos that don't have fly leads. Very neat

 

[Ian1981]

I personally don't cut the functional earth leads just tie them up and loose any slack in the board, easy to do In a 3 phase db.

I've also never crimped terminals when fitting a standard 3 pin plug top as I don't quite see the need

 

[Wilko]

Hi Gavin - I bought one of these kits for a job that (in accord with Sod's law) promptly fell through. So I didn't use it much at first but, recently it's been pulling its weight. I've added some uninsulated ferrules now as well.
Ferrule Kit - German Colour Scheme - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DVDK2G.html

 

[telectrix]

all mine came out of the free issue bins when i was subbing to a large company. had to buy the organiser to put them in though.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

View attachment 38277

Im ordering one. That's a good price too.

 

[Darkwood]

I personally don't cut the functional earth leads just tie them up and loose any slack in the board, easy to do In a 3 phase db.

I've also never crimped terminals when fitting a standard 3 pin plug top as I don't quite see the need

This tends to be the problem in that people don't see an issue, plug tops tend to be a grub crew terminal with either a pointed, flattened or rounded base and often when fully tightened they have gaps to the side of the thread which the fine wire can be pushed into thus not getting a good solid contact, or with the pointed ones they can cut through the delicate stands as oppose to clamp them, on little loads like a table lamp etc this is really not going to be a concern but when you get to heavy loads especially those that are on for long duration then this can be a major factor to plugs overheating on the live or neutral pin.
Yes, twisting the strands can reduce the problem but it not a solution and as a professional should not be the solution, all products you buy where you can open the plug top will show that even the manufacturers have to follow the same rules here.

Don't get me wrong here, I was too one of those who thought nothing of wiring a plug up without crimping but when it was explained and shown then it was clear why the reg's exist on this and I have crimped them ever since, more than a decade later though when this was been highlighted in the trade I do struggle to understand why so many people still do not hold the correct attitude on this matter and/or why it is not been pushed and embedded in students minds at college level.

 

[cprfenom]

Can I ask a slightly different question.

Do you put the fly lead in the corresponding earth terminal?

Would it be a code on an Eicr if they did not correspond to the correct circuit/rcbo?

I recently saw an Eicr with a c2 because the neutrals and cpcs were not in the corresponding terminal on the earth/neutral bar

 

[westward10]

This tends to be the problem in that people don't see an issue, plug tops tend to be a grub crew terminal with either a pointed, flattened or rounded base and often when fully tightened they have gaps to the side of the thread which the fine wire can be pushed into thus not getting a good solid contact, or with the pointed ones they can cut through the delicate stands as oppose to clamp them, on little loads like a table lamp etc this is really not going to be a concern but when you get to heavy loads especially those that are on for long duration then this can be a major factor to plugs overheating on the live or neutral pin.
Yes, twisting the strands can reduce the problem but it not a solution and as a professional should not be the solution, all products you buy where you can open the plug top will show that even the manufacturers have to follow the same rules here.

Don't get me wrong here, I was too one of those who thought nothing of wiring a plug up without crimping but when it was explained and shown then it was clear why the reg's exist on this and I have crimped them ever since, more than a decade later though when this was been highlighted in the trade I do struggle to understand why so many people still do not hold the correct attitude on this matter and/or why it is not been pushed and embedded in students minds at college level.

Which Regulations for terminating a 13A plug top as a matter of interest.

 

[Wilko]

Do you put the fly lead in the corresponding earth terminal?
Yes

Would it be a code on an Eicr if they did not correspond to the correct circuit/rcbo?
If securely attached and working then it's not dangerous so not C1. No possibility of danger if a fault occurred (that I can imagine), so not C2.

 

[PEG]

If i had a pound,for everytime someone asked "What you doing,there?"...it would be for crimping fine wire,when fitting plug tops.
It is something i have done for most of my working life-from the time me dads pal,gave me an old Gedore set of crimpers,and a handful of plain ferrules,from his P.O. supply bag.

What specific regulation covers this,in a domestic setting,i am not sure,but "correct and suitable termination of conductors..." covers this practice,amply.

No matter who or how,a plug top is fitted,one which has the conductors fitted with ferrules,looks more professional.

You can get a range of sizes,for about £12,put them in a little,sectioned Mustad fly-box (£3),the size of a phone,and stick it anywhere. Some Knipex multi-pliers come with a facility to crimp smaller ferrules,so these are your plug top pliers.

Time consuming,picky,pedantic? ...maybe. But certainly,professional.

 

[Wilko]

Which Regulations for terminating a 13A plug top as a matter of interest.

Hi - I take it from the general directive in 526.9.1 - your thoughts?

 

[telectrix]

i have to admit that with plug tops, i generally twist and double over. the ferrules with the plastic shields tend not to fit, and i can't be arsed buying the "plain" ones. i have been known to tin the ends though.

 

[westward10]

Hi - I take it from the general directive in 526.9.1 - your thoughts?

Yes that one where no definition is given for multiwire, fine wire or very fine wire. To me that covers all conductors beyond solid core does it not. Whatever it refers to the requirement is to fit suitable terminals or suitably treat the ends.

 

[westward10]

Hi - I take it from the general directive in 526.9.1 - your thoughts?

Yes that one where no definition is given for multiwire, fine wire or very fine wire. To me that covers all conductors beyond solid core does it not. Whatever it refers to the requirement is to fit suitable terminals or suitably treat the ends.

 

[westward10]

I have yet to see a manufactured pendant set where the ends of the cord are ferruled in any way.

 

[Wilko]

... To me that covers all conductors beyond solid core does it not.

Any of the listed conductors that you judge to be at risk of "inappropriate separation or spreading" in the proposed connection - would shall be my take