Gender Neutral Confusion..............

[Marvo]

Nope, didn't help Pete. There's too many other terms I'm not familiar with and I didn't get clear answers to the basic questions in the opening post.

 

[Pete999]

Nope, didn't help Pete. There's too many other terms I'm not familiar with and I didn't get clear answers to the basic questions in the opening post.

Difficult one Mate, it would be a mine field of hurt if the applicant was denied the job because of a Gender issue, if as you say he does look feminine then i could an issue for both of you. Best offer I have, would be to see him again, with a witness and ask him what he means by his Gender Neutrality statement, could ask one of your 3rd party HR colleagues to be the witness, I know when I was interviewing people, we had a case of one chap who had actually taken the plunge and had surgery, it was explain to him of the possible pitfalls of traveling countries, not as enlightened as this one, good luck mate, sorry I could not be of any more help.

 

[Squid]

For a start he'll have mental health issues so be wary that if you did employ them as a company how much support you would have to give then i.e. time off and financially, if you are a small company it could hurt you financially. Brutal but true.

 

[westward10]

Difficult one Mate, it would be a mine field of hurt if the applicant was denied the job because of a Gender issue, if as you say he does look feminine then i could an issue for both of you. Best offer I have, would be to see him again, with a witness and ask him what he means by his Gender Neutrality statement, could ask one of your 3rd party HR colleagues to be the witness, I know when I was interviewing people, we had a case of one chap who had actually taken the plunge and had surgery, it was explain to him of the possible pitfalls of traveling countries, not as enlightened as this one, good luck mate, sorry I could not be of any more help.

Why would you need a witness that is immediately classing them as being "different" when in fact they are no different to you or I. Most of these individuals want to be treated like anyone else and why not because they are but by highlighting this indicates to me further issues along the line. By all means interview them and try not to confuse style over intent.

 

[Pete999]

Why would you need a witness that is immediately classing them as being "different" when in fact they are no different to you or I. Most of these individuals want to be treated like anyone else and why not because they are but by highlighting this indicates to me further issues along the line. By all means interview them and try not to confuse style over intent.

Why would you need a witness? because if the person with the issues says or infers that something has been said said that causes offence it could be misconstrued as sexist or any other such ist you can imagine.

Just the interviewee and the interviewer together it would or could be their word against yours, believe me I have been there, with two people on the interviewers side you are at least protected against any accusations, by all means ask the interviewee if he or she has any objections if a colleague sits in on the interview, I believe it's called covering your backside.

 

[Cadgey123]

Look at the animosity this thread is causing?

The guy/chick hasn't even been seen or heard yet in real life. Give the applicant a chance for f*** sake.
If you don't like them sack them off after and say, " Thanks for coming"

We are intolerable people in society and if it doesn't fit in with our 'normal' lives, we start to panic!!

 

[Midwest]

Firstly this should have no bearing on their suitability for the job, judge their application and CV exactly the same as all of the others, and if they are worth an interview then invite them to do so.

Interview them exactly as you would anyone else. Then after the interview explain to them that you don't fully understand what gender neutrality is but that you didn't mention it until after the interview because it has no bearing on their suitability for the job.

If they are genuine then they will appreciate this, if they are abusing the situation to attempt to guilt you into giving them the job or wanting to make political statements etc then they won't appreciate it and will try to cause a fuss. But because you did treat them exactly the same as everyone else's they won't have a leg to stand on if they attempt to make something of it.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I do know a little bit about it and I have a few friends who know more than I do.

I could write many pages on the subject but I'll restrain myself for now.

Difficult one Mate, it would be a mine field of hurt if the applicant was denied the job because of a Gender issue, if as you say he does look feminine then i could an issue for both of you. Best offer I have, would be to see him again, with a witness and ask him what he means by his Gender Neutrality statement, could ask one of your 3rd party HR colleagues to be the witness, I know when I was interviewing people, we had a case of one chap who had actually taken the plunge and had surgery, it was explain to him of the possible pitfalls of traveling countries, not as enlightened as this one, good luck mate, sorry I could not be of any more help.

In this neck of the woods Dave you wouldn't guilt anyone into anything or be making any kind of political statement by declaring gender neutral, like I say nobody I've spoken to has any idea even what it is.

It probably shouldn't have any bearing on their suitability for the job but why would they go out of their way to state it when it wasn't an option on the form we sent them?

I know it would be a paperwork issue, we have to declare on official forms the number of male, female, black, white, coloured and disabled emplyees for purposes of complying with the employment equity act and there's no accomodation for any genders other than male and female. Kinda ironic really when the employment equity act was passed with the purpose of 'guaranteeing non-discrimination on the basis of race, gender, age, political opinion and religious beliefs'

Marvo I think the advice given by davesparks is most sensible. To do anything else would not be. Your applicant may have had other job interviews, having not mentioned the gender neutral aspect has created an unnecessary complication, this person is at least being honest. As Pete advised as well. Last few interviews I had, always had three members, consisting of company representatives and HR manager.

I understand the points and views the others have made regarding employment on a small company, but as you've said yourself, make any discrimination of anyone would set you up for a fall.

 

[Pete999]

Look at the animosity this thread is causing?

The guy/chick hasn't even been seen or heard yet in real life. Give the applicant a chance for f*** sake.
If you don't like them sack them off after and say, " Thanks for coming"

We are intolerable people in society and if it doesn't fit in with our 'normal' lives, we start to panic!!

Don't think there is any animosity in this thread, questions have been asked some have been answered, employers have to be careful and mindful of peoples differences, your method of dealing with the issue, "sack them off" well I had better not say what I think.

 

[Richard Burns]

From a general perspective I think that unless you are experiencing these approaches it can be difficult to understand at least for an older generation.

From a practical perspective you need to consider if this person has the qualifications and or experience that you are looking for, if not, then the question becomes moot.
If you are considering interviewing them then you just take their approach into consideration in how you frame questions so as not to apply a gender bias.
I generally feel that he and him are general terms that also happen to mean male but this is not generally accepted by anyone with a specific gender identification.
I would consider using a name or speaking in the third person for an interview, "you" is gender neutral.
From a statistical perspective a count of male and female people would be on a biological basis not a mental basis.

As a gender neutral person they are simply saying they are not male and they are not female, and generally not happy with being identified as either.
Probably from a practical point of view they are merely normal people with a different mind set.

Good luck.

 

[Squid]

Look at the animosity this thread is causing?

The guy/chick hasn't even been seen or heard yet in real life. Give the applicant a chance for f*** sake.
If you don't like them sack them off after and say, " Thanks for coming"

We are intolerable people in society and if it doesn't fit in with our 'normal' lives, we start to panic!!

The OP is in South Africa, certain things need another 20 years to catch up with the "enlightened" UK

 

[Squid]

As a gender neutral person they are simply saying they are not male and they are not female, and generally not happy with being identified as either.
Probably from a practical point of view they are merely normal people with a different mind set.

Good luck.

Can you get away with paying them less then?

 

[Leader]

You shouldn't be asking about it at interview, the information is for statistical purposes only and should have no bearing on whether you hire this person. You shouldn't need to alter your language because when are you ever going g to use him/her/she etc when directly addressing a person? If I saw this on an application I think I'd file it in my brain as "interesting" and just get on with it. If they are the best applicant then perhaps you can sensitively ask them how they would like to be addressed. Regarding customer you will have to let them know that customers' actions are beyond your control and they will have to take on the responsibility of introducing themselves to customers and let them know if they would like to be addressed in a certain way. More than likely though this is a mountain out of a mole hill and they be be perfectly normal

 

[davesparks]

This persons gender is one or the other not sitting on a fence. .

Is it? Why should it be binary? Nature doesn't conform to the labels that humans have given it in our attempts to quantify, explain and control it.
Nature is analogue, not digital. Living things rely on mutations and variations to survive, and it is the whole point of the theory of evolution.

Science has identified the chromosome responsible for gender, so we have XX for male and XY for female, but if you actually look at samples every persons gender chromosomes are different. They rarely form the perfect precise shapes we assume and this is reflected in the people they come from.

 

[davesparks]

This persons gender is one or the other not sitting on a fence. .

Is it? Why should it be binary? Nature doesn't conform to the labels that humans have given it in our attempts to quantify, explain and control it.
Nature is analogue, not digital. Living things rely on mutations and variations to survive, and it is the whole point of the theory of evolution.

Science has identified the chromosome responsible for gender, so we have XX for male and XY for female, but if you actually look at samples every persons gender chromosomes are different. They rarely form the perfect precise shapes we assume and this is reflected in the people they come from.

 

[davesparks]

For a start he'll have mental health issues so be wary that if you did employ them as a company how much support you would have to give then i.e. time off and financially, if you are a small company it could hurt you financially. Brutal but true.

Rubbish, you cannot diagnose a mental health condition on the basis of being gender neutral.
And even if they do have mental health issue it doesn't automatically mean that they will need extra support from their employer.

 

[UKMeterman]

Can you get away with paying them less then?

Hi,
No you can can't! Now on a more practical point if you employ a person who is disabled and meets certain critera then they will qualify for goverment support under the access for work scheme. Now being "gender neutral" is not a dissablity. Get help at work if you’re disabled or have a health condition (Access to Work) - GOV.UK - https://www.gov.uk/access-to-work

 

[mickfred]

The attempted suicide rate for trans people is 41percent , it cannot be just nasty names .

 

[UKMeterman]

The attempted suicide rate for trans people is 41percent , it cannot be just nasty names .

Sustained "nasty names" can be very delibiateing, and often the abuse is far worse than just "nasty names". I would suggest reflecting on the content of this discussion.

 

[Pete999]

This is, by far the beast and easiest description of what a Gender Neutral person is, I hope it helps.

 

[Rpa07]

It's called character and we all have one and that's what makes us get along or not.
This 'mindi' in the video is just describing being a human being and not a robot.
So many of school age and university age are being brainwashed into these ideas pandering to the agenda for those that want to make trouble for society and government. This brainwashing is causing tendencies such as suicide. Kids don't know who they are now because they are being told what they should be at such a young vulnerable age. And keep toilets separate for heavens sake!
You are male or female that's what your DNA says in every, every cell of your body.
Everybody wants an identity but they want one that makes them stand out and this also makes them very intolerant of anyone who disagrees.
I don't go on marches and placard my way around town, why should they?
I don't know where this is all headed and quite frankly I'm not interested in them. They are the naughty kids in school that had the most attention whilst the ones that wanted to get on suffered.
Sit down, shut up and work to make this country a greater place to live in or go somewhere else.
Have a good weekend everyone.