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  1. Dan
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    Dan I'm not a sparky but I know a couple ;-) Staff Member

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    Staffordshire
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  2. GMES
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    GMES Chief Gorilla Staff Member Trusted Advisor

    Yes awful news, have they also arrested the wrong person for it, Just caught a minute of the news earlier??
     
  3. Vortigern
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    Vortigern Electrician's Arms

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    England
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    F.H. Electrical
    Hear Hear, RIP. Another knife attack in Forest Hill as well I hear, man stabbed and he attacked bystanders. Something has got to give here!
     
  4. LeeH
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    LeeH Insert witty monkey comment here. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Lincs
    This is what happens when you're not in control of who comes through your front door.
     
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  5. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    Northampton
    Kenny Everett had the right idea Bomb the --------
     
  6. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    Why? Do you imagine those planning such outrages have it printed on their foreheads? At one stage they suspected a Pakistani man (since released) so not a European.

    And plenty of terrorist acts are carried out by home grown converts so shutting down borders won't achive the desired result. Not to mention all countries have their share of bad people any way.
     
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  7. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Sure as night follows day.... it ain't going to get better any time soon...
     
  8. 7029 dave
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    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    bedfordshire
    The evil that mankind do. You have to feel for the German citizens, they welcomed them in, it would not have happened 70 odd years ago.! It will come our way mark my words 20k coming soon.
     
  9. darkwood
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    darkwood It's all about Gmes Staff Member Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    The problem I see is politics is getting in the way here, Merkel got a crucial election next year and can't afford this to be down to her open door policy as there is already a backlash against her from several incidents, the fact that there is a u-turn on the main suspect came after an Emergency government meeting and now claims of no one in the frame as such is all a bit suspect if you ask me, Germany were found to be trying to block media coverage in the past so their record here isn't good, so we have a dead passenger terrorist suspect - we seem to be lacking any info on him too even though they have him as I take it in his condition he didn't run away.
    I may be wrong but Germany's government has done everything in there powers to deflect other incidents from the media and pass them off as minor disturbances but they were exposed by the sheer volume last new year of sexual assaults that took place that it was impossible to contain, disturbing eye witness accounts are still coming out to this and other incidents almost blacked out from the media.
    I watch the UK news but also watch other internet channels that are free of state interference and once you learn to syphon the bull on them it's shocking just exactly what we don't get told and how some of it is twisted for the general publics ears.

    Regardless, RIP to the victims :(
     
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  10. LeeH
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    LeeH Insert witty monkey comment here. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Lincs
    Who gives a **** where he came from. He entered the country due to the governments policy. If he hadn't had gained access those people would still be alive.

    If you control who steps into your back yard you can seriously reduce what kicks off in it.

    Even the most moronic lefty can see that?

    And no, this isn't a personal attack on you Pat. And yes, I thought criminals did have a tattoo on there head. I'm a bit simple like that.
     
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  11. LeeH
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    LeeH Insert witty monkey comment here. Electrician's Arms

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    Lincs
    Why is t o s s in the swear filter?
     
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  12. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
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    Sparks of Intelligence
    They haven't even arrested anyone yet so how can anyone say how they came to be in Germany?
    As far as we know they could have been locals converted to a terrorist cause.
    But its far easier to just blame imagration.

    And has been shown before if bad people want to get in they will. Closing the borders doesn't stop terrorism.
     
  13. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Early days but seems they are on the hunt for a Tunisian

    see Berlin truck attack: Police hunt for Tunisian suspect - BBC News - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38392128
     
  14. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    I agree with LeeH
     
  15. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    If the question people ask about terrorism is how they won't ever stop it and will just live in fear.
    The question should be why and what can be done to repair the damage thats been done to cause people to feel these acts are justified.
    You can't ever stop people who belive in a cause they are prepared to die for.

    And I see Germany is to expand its CCTV network to help prevent future attacks.
    So if they see a lorry driving aling the road they can... well do what exactly?
     
  16. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Agree but don't invite them into your home or country and feed them.
    There are many more incidents in germany that have been covered up for political reasons.
     
  17. Pat H
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    Pat H Don't ask, get an Electrician in.

    Location:
    Ware Herts
    Business Name:
    Sparks of Intelligence
    If we applied that globally we'd be saying don't be kind in case it comes back to bote you.
    What sort of a world would we have/or will we have if we stop kindness and consideration for the plight of others?

    May as well stop food banks as I'm sure some who use them aren't starving.
     
  18. darkwood
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    darkwood It's all about Gmes Staff Member Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    Don't forget here, in a sense we brought this on ourselves, the rise of ISIS is down to our own and American foreign policy and the Iraq war in which we created a void that birthed ISIS with a envy of the west, hate what is happening all you want but we are only reaping what we sowed here, this is what happens when you brown nose America and get pulled
    into a war under a false flag just so they can maintain world economic dominance with the Petrodollar been the currency of choice for oil trade.

    We need to blame the governments of the day for the attrocities we now see on our own soil, yes it has always happened in Islamic states as the main Muslims factions fight each other but we dipped our toe into something bigger than all our nations and that is an Ideology ... this will not be something that will go away anytime soon as we are still active and interfering in the likes of Syria etc.

    The Chilcot report exposes alot and shows we should have never been there in the first place yet Blair is still walking around smiling while his legacy is murdering innocent people in European countries.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  19. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    The sort of world we have is the kind that's biting the hand that feeds it. My family come first to me I wouldn't risk their life's to save one refugee.
     
  20. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Agree with Darkwood getting rid of Sadam was a big mistake yes he indiscriminately waved his big stick of fear at his people and they were rightly scared. It kept all the factions underground and in some sort of harmony to live together. Now without the big stick they do as they like.
     
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  21. darkwood
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    darkwood It's all about Gmes Staff Member Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    The biggest Irony here is and to any outsider reading about this the fact that Tony Blair became the Middle East Peace Envoy ... seriously you couldn't make it up if you tried :confused:

    It's like letting the rapist counsel the rape victim :eek:
     
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  22. buzzlightyear
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    buzzlightyear Electrician's Arms

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    star command
    this what's happens when let the jinnee out of the bottle.
     
  23. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    I know this will irritate many people BUT at the least people in Germany, who live there, or arrive as migrants HAVE to be registered with the Police AND carry ID cards.... many European countries have ID cards

    I would have no problem having one - so if the UK Government want to introduce one, bring it on....
     
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  24. 7029 dave
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    7029 dave Trusted Advisor

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    bedfordshire
    He did keep the dogs at bay.
     
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  25. Wilko
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    Wilko Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Berkshire
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    Wilko Electrics
    Sorry to say, but respect for living creatures is not high in the world, and that has far reaching consequences in every walk :(
     
  26. EoinConway
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    EoinConway Regular EF Member

    Location:
    UK
    Darkwood, what in your opinion, would you say plays more of a role in the rise of ISIS; us 'bringing it on ourselves' or the Quran?
     
  27. Marvo
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    Marvo GMES....You absolute beauty. YOU ROCK DUDE!!!! Staff Member

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    South Africa
    The Quran has been around for centuries, the Islamic linked terrorist attacks have only been prolific for the last few years....
     
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  28. EoinConway
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    EoinConway Regular EF Member

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    UK
    So would you say it and it's content has nothing to do with it Marvo? Would you agree with Darkwood that the West brought this on themselves?

    I'm not meaning to be antagonistic, just interested as it had not been mentioned in the thread until that point.
     
  29. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    If I can jump in, to answer your question George Bush both of em and of course Tony B sorry Darkwood over to you.
     
  30. EoinConway
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    EoinConway Regular EF Member

    Location:
    UK
    They must have been taking Kenny Everett seriously Peter, imagine.
     
  31. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    The terrorist war has been smouldering forever. under the guise of the quran. They were at war with each other.
    We should have left them alone to war amongst themselves. But now its all about money and oil.
    Isis too are after money oil and power using the quran as a smoke screen.
    So in my opinion a swarm of angry wasps around a hive has had a brick thrown at them. Everyone knows you can't help angry wasps you leave them be and they will eventually calm. The west thought it could and how wrong they were.
    Saddam was portrayed to the world as the west wanted us to see him. I don't think he was a good man but was the right man to keep the country from simmering over. He definitely did a better job than we are now.
    I don't know the way forward if I did I would say.
     
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  32. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

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    Kingston upon Hull
    I would say interpretation of its content and the dwelling on certain aspects of its content is more to blame than the content itself. There is horrific war mongering murderous content in the bible too that is largely ignored.
    The Quran is full of contradictions as is the bible. They both have wisdom, they both have nonsense, they both have parts that can be exploited to justify terrible things.
    I don't draw any distinction between a Muslim hate preacher telling a group of people that infidels must be murdered, and GW Bush telling his nation that God told him to invade Iraq. The only similarity being that only morons woulds buy into either argument.

    Awful people exploit religious texts in their pursuit of being awful, much the same as people exploit rules and laws to their own gain.
     
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  33. Pete999
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    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

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    A
    Andy, how right you are,
     
  34. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    As most agree the bible and the quran have passages in them that were for different times or people or have been interpreted wrong.
    Have a look at the Christian ways of the past how civilised we were then.Crusades - Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

    Religion is used by the powerfull to control the masses. In the modern world they use tv and media to brainwash us.
     
  35. Andy78
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    Andy78 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    Just to clarify my last point and better answer Eion's post.

    There are hundreds of millions of people that manage to extract and accept useful, wise, peaceful teachings from both the Quran and the Bible, amongst other religious texts.
    The people that seek to exploit the worst parts of religion are always the few, and one cannot attribute this exploitation to any group of people, either ethnically or otherwise, as a generalisation.
     
  36. darkwood
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    darkwood It's all about Gmes Staff Member Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    As has just been pointed out, most religious scripture regardless of what religion we look at has some form of encouragement to hate or harm others just because of their beliefs or sexuality so you cannot point the finger solely at the qur'an and it's content, there has to be other underlying driving forces and when it comes to Islam this tends to be a internal argument of the interpretation of what the qur'an actually means hence the massive divides that has been happening for thousands of years between shia and sunny Muslims... now I'm no expert here but when you step into a thousand year war of ideology with a few billion Muslims then regardless where in the world they live and regardless of them not directly effected by the invasion of Iraq or Syria for that matter, they see you as the enemy as you have declared holy war on their way of interpreting Islam hence many terrorists are home grown ... the issues with Islam and it's followers has always existed .. where we messed up was by taking sides in our foreign policy actions. This in my mind is Bush and Blairs legacy which has invited terror to the west a crime I believe they should both be answering for.
     
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  37. Diddy
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    Diddy Regular EF Member

    It all went downhill after the people's judean front split and formed the peoples front of judea......bloody splitters !!!
     
  38. Diddy
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    Diddy Regular EF Member

    For the more serious points raised I also agree with Darkwood. We did bring this on ourselves. Well our leaders did on our behalf most probably assisted by a whole bunch of different agencies with different vested interest.
    I really don't think we can deny what our involvement direct or otherwise has done and continues to do each and every day. We installed Saddam when he was our friend lol. we assisted him in taking power. We "trained" Osama Bin Laden and HIS crew to further our "interests" in the middle east. We assisted those who tried to overthrow Assad.....shame they turned to ISIS when "liberated". We also assisted the arab spring uprising in various other countries.....Willing the toppling of Gadaffi.....not long after we were meeting the man in his tent and doing deals with him....
    I always think of how I would feel in their situation if I was say a spark who lived and worked in say Baghdad or Tripoli ect....I mean these places had harsh regimes but had electricity, running water, healthcare, education ect ect ect, Im not so sure I would be overly impressed by the west's "help".
    There is a huge case in all of the above to answer the charge of "You broke it so YOU fix it". Maybe WE are far too easy on our own leaders as ultimately it will be us who pay the price in blood and treasure to right any wrongs.
     
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  39. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

  40. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

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    Woking
    They could only identify him because of his German ID card!
     
  41. Barry White
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    Barry White Guest

    Says they identified him by his fingerprints?
     
  42. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    In Germany when you "register" when you arrive, they take your photo and finger prints .... the UK should do the same
     
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  43. andyb
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    andyb Electrician's Arms

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    West Sussex
    We do Murdoch, and the finger print is put onto an international data base to see if they've applied for assylem elswhere.
     
  44. Murdoch
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    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    That's news to me...... Role out id cards for all
     
  45. andyb
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    andyb Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    West Sussex
    Not for me, I'll not be carrying one.
     
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