German Market Lorry Incident

[Barry White]

Says they identified him by his fingerprints?

 

[Octopus]

Says they identified him by his fingerprints?

In Germany when you "register" when you arrive, they take your photo and finger prints .... the UK should do the same

 

[andyb]

In Germany when you "register" when you arrive, they take your photo and finger prints .... the UK should do the same

We do Murdoch, and the finger print is put onto an international data base to see if they've applied for assylem elswhere.

 

[Octopus]

We do Murdoch, and the finger print is put onto an international data base to see if they've applied for assylem elswhere.

That's news to me...... Role out id cards for all

 

[andyb]

That's news to me...... Role out id cards for all

Not for me, I'll not be carrying one.

 

[Marvo]

That's news to me...... Role out id cards for all

ID cards might make it easier to track down perpetrators but it won't help prevent these isolated attacks.

You need military roadblocks at 3KM intervals on all main routes, you need random stop and searches by armed police and a complete countrywide cerfew from 8pm to 8am. Some other things that might help would be to take down all open wi-fi and make internet access by licensed users only, also firewall the internet at national level so only acceptable sites and services that are UK government run are available. Also encourage a system where neighbours and family members spy on each other and report to a secret police force for cash rewards. Yeah, it might cramp your style whilst you're getting used to it but it's for your own good

 

[telectrix]

In Germany when you "register" when you arrive, they take your photo and finger prints .... the UK should do the same

and a DNA sample.

 

[telectrix]

Not for me, I'll not be carrying one.

you have one . it's called a driving licence.

 

[andyb]

you have one . it's called a driving licence.

It's not the same, there is no legal requirement to own a driving license or carry one whilst not driving.
The trouble is if you give up one liberty in the pretence of security, when the attacks keep hapenning they'll be after more then more.
As Benjamin Franklin said, 'If you give up your freedom for safety, you don't deserve either one'
And he should know, he invented electricity.

 

[Midwest]

Most people carry some form of ID, bank card, credit card etc. Just looked in my wallet, even my Trade UK card has my name on it. I would carry my driving licence card, but I don't want to lose it. So it wouldn't bother me to have photo ID. Bit of a nightmare to facilitate, mind. And when they got lost or stolen!

That said, I went to use to transfer some money when I bought a car last year. Had to go to the bank to do it. I had my passport, driving licence (& card), two utility bills with my name and address. But the staff didn't believe it was me, because my signature was different to the one I gave them 40 years ago!

 

[andyb]

Most people carry these cards true, but you can't be arrested for not carrying them.

 

[Midwest]

True, but there are currently occasions when cops have to arrest, where a persons identity & address can not be verified after the person commits a minor offence, for example. If you had an identity card, this would be negated.
Unless in the time of war, I can't see cops arresting Mrs Miggins, just because she isn't carrying her ID card.

 

[andyb]

Unless in the time of war, I can't see cops arresting Mrs Miggins, just because she isn't carrying her ID card.

That's where we differ, I can and I don't want to give them the opportunity.

 

[Midwest]

Always bad cops as well as good cops. But we are living in the UK not Cold War East Germany.

 

[Barry White]

It's not the same, there is no legal requirement to own a driving license or carry one whilst not driving.
The trouble is if you give up one liberty in the pretence of security, when the attacks keep hapenning they'll be after more then more.
As Benjamin Franklin said, 'If you give up your freedom for safety, you don't deserve either one'
And he should know, he invented electricity.

I agree ID cards will not stop anything passports don't so ID cards won't . Would carry one if it was a requirement without a problem.

 

[Wilko]

I don't think I'm thick (stop that laughing you lot) but I haven't understood what is the problem with being correctly and uniquely identified as me. I can see some pluses, but what are the minuses?

 

[Midwest]

I don't think I'm thick (stop that laughing you lot) but I haven't understood what is the problem with being correctly and uniquely identified as me. I can see some pluses, but what are the minuses?

I tend to agree, although I'm not convinced ID cards would have a great impact on such events. The only way to prevent such atrocities, is good intelligence, actively seeking out individuals/organisations, having the specialised counter terrorism units and stop young people from being drawn into terrorism.

But I see no reason why, in this day and age, we shouldn't be able to identify ourselves when required in reasonable circumstances.

 

[Marvo]

...........But I see no reason why, in this day and age, we shouldn't be able to identify ourselves when required in reasonable circumstances.

The police and other law enforcement agencies already have the right to positively identify any person whom they can prove they need to. If there's someone who falls into that category and can't be positively identified they already have the right to apprehend until identification is made.

Making it a legal requirement to carry ID cards won't give the security forces any more actual power in this regard.

Some reasons not to make ID cards mandatory;

Cost. You can work on it costing around a billion of your UK pounds to roll out a mandatory national biometric ID. That kinda money (assuming it's available in the first place) could be more effectively used elsewhere in the fight against terrorists.

Complexity. Biometric ID readers are still in the relatively early stages of developement and portable scanners and readers are still few and far between and of questionable accuracy and reliability.

Over-reaching. Most of the lobbying for mandatory biometric ID's is coming from big business for a good reason. The amount of info biometric ID cards can carry is vast so with a bit of mission creep over a few years you'll end up with a card that contains everything from your credit history to your medical history and it will be available to anyone with a scanner. What little privacy you have left will be history.

Security of info; For any kind of mandetory ID system to work massive databases of everyones info are required to crosscheck and update the info that's retained within the card itself. History has proven time after time that there's no such thing as a secure database. It would only be a matter of time until large swathes of very intimate data about the entire population was stolen/hacked/leaked/lost and ended up for sale to the highest bidder.

I could go on but it's 2.15am here so more is nog 'n dag.

Have a great Christmas.