Discuss green sludge on light switch cables in the Australia area at ElectriciansForums.net

A

andyww

Hi all

Just changed a light fitting for a customer who then said - I've noticed some green sludge coming out of the light switches, can you tell me what it is. I removed a couple of switches and sure enough, there is a green 'goo' on the cables, looking like it has run down the cable from above. consistency is like swarfega - any idea what it is??
 
Its toxic.

IRC, a while ago, in some cable that was manufactured there was a chemical reaction between the pvc and the copper.

This caused the goo, but, whilst its not a problem to the installation, it is recommended that a rewire is done.

There is nothing that can be done to stop it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sorry - just to clarify - no problem with the installation - it doesn't pose any danger other than the toxicity, and the appearance, but recommendation is to rewire
 
Andy the green sludge as jason says is a chemical reaction between the copper and the PVC basically the PVC is breaking down , you have to asume that all the cabling is effected ,and could cause problems , ive come accross the same problem ,had to rewire ,cover you back mate check the sockets and dist board , but get it in writing that you recommend a rewire:(
 
It's known as "green goo". Look at NICEIC Snags & Solutions - it was in 16th Edition versions and I presume is in new versions too. Don't have book to hand at the minute as I'm not at home but from memory it's due to migration of the plasticiser in older PVC cables.
 
Found this about it.

Green gunge is most prevalent in cables made between 1965 and 1971. The
gunge is degraded di-isoctyl phthalate and is the result of the reaction
between the plasticisor in the insulation and the copper. Between 1965 and
1971 the temprature performance of PVC was uprated by the inclusion of an
anti-oxidant in to the PVC. An unappreciated side effect was that the
anti-oxident encouraged the production of exudate.
Evidence suggests that that high ambient temperatures accelarate the
process. The exudate is of low flammability and low toxicity. Although
unsightly it does not reduce the electrical integity of the conductor or the
insulation.

See also the draft BCA statement (April 2001) below: -

1) PVC
PVC comes in two main grades, plasticised and unplasticised PVC.
Unplasticised PVC (UPVC) is used for example in double glazing window frames
where a rigid material is required.
The PVC used for manufacture of cables is a plasticised PVC that conforms to
the relevant British Standard for the cable type in question.

2) Ageing effects
As a cable ages; (at temperatures above normal ambient), the elongation to
break decreases (also the Insulation Resistance increases). The life
expectancy of a cable is arbitrarily considered to be when the elongation to
break of the PVC is 50%.
A lower elongation to break value could be considered suitable especially
for a fixed wiring cable. Therefore, providing the cable is not subject to
movement or when moved due to inspection of socket outlet or the like, the
PVC does not crack, a much lower value of elongation to break is considered
by some as suitable.

3) Greening
Greening is the appearance of a wet green substance that is a product of an
adverse reaction between certain types of plasticiser and the copper
conductors. This greening, which is a rare occurrence, can happen either
after a long period of time for some cables, or if the cable has been
severely overheated.
The plasticiser itself is a clear oily liquid that is non conductive. The
green substance is a combination of copper oxide and plasticiser which may
become conductive under certain adverse conditions.

4) Action if Greening is found
Therefore whenever this green substance is found at socket outlets etc.
initially it should be removed and the terminations cleaned (gloves should
be used) otherwise it is possible that tracking/overheating may occur. It is
strongly recommended that rewiring should be carried out as soon as
possible.

If further information is required, the original cable manufacturer should
be contacted
 
I recon the forum should have a section SINTRAS BRAINS AND OTHER USEFULL STUFF
which bit would you like? i know a good brain surgeon i reckon for a rewire he would remove the front lobe for us :) and while were there could grab some of lennys :)
 
I am a kiwi sparkie working in NZ, the green S%^T occurs here too, not generally harmful . Generally regarded as a cosmetic problem but DONT DONT get it on your fingers and then rub your eyes(OR anywhere else with sensitive skin......you know where I mean!) it stings like hell!
 
had quite alot of problems with flourescent fitting reccesed 4 lamp ,the single wires ,basically the insulation just liquified and exposed all the copper so be aware
 
Thanks for all the advice and info chaps - I have relayed this to the customer and advised that a rewire is the best option.

Cheers
Andy
 
Andy the green sludge as jason says is a chemical reaction between the copper and the PVC basically the PVC is breaking down , you have to asume that all the cabling is effected ,and could cause problems , ive come accross the same problem ,had to rewire ,cover you back mate check the sockets and dist board , but get it in writing that you recommend a rewire:(

aggree totaly;)
 
Found this about it.

Green gunge is most prevalent in cables made between 1965 and 1971. The
gunge is degraded di-isoctyl phthalate and is the result of the reaction
between the plasticisor in the insulation and the copper. Between 1965 and
1971 the temprature performance of PVC was uprated by the inclusion of an
anti-oxidant in to the PVC. An unappreciated side effect was that the
anti-oxident encouraged the production of exudate.
Evidence suggests that that high ambient temperatures accelarate the
process. The exudate is of low flammability and low toxicity. Although
unsightly it does not reduce the electrical integity of the conductor or the
insulation.

See also the draft BCA statement (April 2001) below: -

1) PVC
PVC comes in two main grades, plasticised and unplasticised PVC.
Unplasticised PVC (UPVC) is used for example in double glazing window frames
where a rigid material is required.
The PVC used for manufacture of cables is a plasticised PVC that conforms to
the relevant British Standard for the cable type in question.

2) Ageing effects
As a cable ages; (at temperatures above normal ambient), the elongation to
break decreases (also the Insulation Resistance increases). The life
expectancy of a cable is arbitrarily considered to be when the elongation to
break of the PVC is 50%.
A lower elongation to break value could be considered suitable especially
for a fixed wiring cable. Therefore, providing the cable is not subject to
movement or when moved due to inspection of socket outlet or the like, the
PVC does not crack, a much lower value of elongation to break is considered
by some as suitable.

3) Greening
Greening is the appearance of a wet green substance that is a product of an
adverse reaction between certain types of plasticiser and the copper
conductors. This greening, which is a rare occurrence, can happen either
after a long period of time for some cables, or if the cable has been
severely overheated.
The plasticiser itself is a clear oily liquid that is non conductive. The
green substance is a combination of copper oxide and plasticiser which may
become conductive under certain adverse conditions.

4) Action if Greening is found
Therefore whenever this green substance is found at socket outlets etc.
initially it should be removed and the terminations cleaned (gloves should
be used) otherwise it is possible that tracking/overheating may occur. It is
strongly recommended that rewiring should be carried out as soon as
possible.

If further information is required, the original cable manufacturer should
be contacted

i can smell the quality top reply
 
disagree. It does conduct electricity. Its a rewire. Its also oe of those chemicals that every one is guarded about (the boffins not us ) are we gonna be the next asbestiois group in 20 years time ? My advice is dont touch.
 

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